International JSF (sub) standard

Just seen a chart that said the Aim9x is going to be intergrated on
the F-35 externally.

Seems the US isn't worried to much by external SRAAM's

Cheers
John Cook

Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All
opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them.

Email Address :-
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Henry J Cobb wrote:
What good would it do to carry a short range air to air missile in
such a way that it increases your radar return to the extent that the
enemy will now be able to engage your fighter beyond the range of
that missile?

Well, JSF will carry external bomb loads from time to time. If it's already
hauling bombs externally, it makes sense to hang self-defense missiles there
too. In theory, this will happen only after the enemy air defenses are
beaten down, but I'd really hate to be wrong.

I'm also curious how you reached your conclusion about detection vs firing
ranges. I'm sure you have no detailed knowledge of JSF's radar signature,
ASRAAM's effective range, or the detection ranges of enemy radars.


--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when
wrong to be put right." - Senator Carl Schurz, 1872

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:40:42 GMT, "Thomas Schoene"
wrote:

Henry J Cobb wrote:
What good would it do to carry a short range air to air missile in
such a way that it increases your radar return to the extent that the
enemy will now be able to engage your fighter beyond the range of
that missile?

Well, JSF will carry external bomb loads from time to time. If it's already
hauling bombs externally, it makes sense to hang self-defense missiles there
too. In theory, this will happen only after the enemy air defenses are
beaten down, but I'd really hate to be wrong.

I'm also curious how you reached your conclusion about detection vs firing
ranges. I'm sure you have no detailed knowledge of JSF's radar signature,
ASRAAM's effective range, or the detection ranges of enemy radars.
wouldnt the Aim-9x have a lower RCS then the Aim-120 anyway, so how
much increase to the planes overall RCS would a Sidewinder put on a
plane anyway. And take into account by the time you get in range to
use the Aim-9/ASRAAM your stealth is meaningless cause everything is
visible/IR target tracking. JMO

"Lyle" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:40:42 GMT, "Thomas Schoene"
wrote:

Henry J Cobb wrote:
What good would it do to carry a short range air to air missile in
such a way that it increases your radar return to the extent that the
enemy will now be able to engage your fighter beyond the range of
that missile?

Well, JSF will carry external bomb loads from time to time. If it's
already
hauling bombs externally, it makes sense to hang self-defense missiles
there
too. In theory, this will happen only after the enemy air defenses are
beaten down, but I'd really hate to be wrong.

I'm also curious how you reached your conclusion about detection vs
firing
ranges. I'm sure you have no detailed knowledge of JSF's radar
signature,
ASRAAM's effective range, or the detection ranges of enemy radars.

wouldnt the Aim-9x have a lower RCS then the Aim-120 anyway, so how
much increase to the planes overall RCS would a Sidewinder put on a
plane anyway.

A lot. Consider that they have been dillying around with how to cover joints
at fuselage openings to maintain the stealthy characteristics of the F-117,
B-2, etc. Recall the account from the head of the Skunk Works during the
F-117 development who noted that an incorrectly set fastener blew the RCS
out of of the steathy mode during an early test. *Anything* protruding
outside of the aircraft will tend to increase its RCS--they spend a great
deal of effort finetuning the exterior design to acheive a low RCS, and new
appendages would trash a lot of that effort. As to comparing it to the AIM
120, why? As long as the missiles are carried internally, what is the point?

And take into account by the time you get in range to
use the Aim-9/ASRAAM your stealth is meaningless cause everything is
visible/IR target tracking. JMO

At night? Approaching the target from the side or quarter, outside of any IR
seeker coverage (but inside the coverage of the radars of his supporting
AWACS or ground-based systems)? And do all frontline fighters have a good
IRST? Nope. Or if you are carrying the AIM-9 as a self-defense only measure,
and your real mission is to strike the airfield that the defending aircraft
is loitering about? How about the fact that your "meaningless" stealth may
still be effective against shorter wavelength systems (like a weapons
guidance package)--you still want to toss that out the window?

Brooks

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:20:58 +1000, John Cook wrote:

By Bill Sweetman

Up to US$1 billion of the projected cost overrun on the Lockheed
Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is attributable to the
development of 'anti-tamper' (AT) technology to protect stealth
features on the JSF, together with a 'sanitized' and probably less
stealthy export configuration of the fighter.

Does this include the UK version?

The clear implication is that the 'international' JSF would have a
larger RCS than the US version, would be easier to detect by hostile
radars and would consequently be more susceptible to attack. That, in
turn, would have consequences for the overall effectiveness of the
fighter. Like other LO aircraft, it does not carry active jamming
equipment or a towed decoy, and it cannot use high-off-boresight
air-to-air missiles when in stealth mode.

Do you have anyn information on what the RCS for either version of
the F-35 will be, and how it compares with other aircraft?

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk)

John Cook wrote:

From Janes

JSF security technology costing up to US$1bn

By Bill Sweetman


JSF is the first US stealth aircraft to be offered for export.

And what of reports that the F-117 was offered to the
UK (and declined) years ago?

"Dweezil Dwarftosser" wrote in message
...
John Cook wrote:

From Janes

JSF security technology costing up to US$1bn

By Bill Sweetman


JSF is the first US stealth aircraft to be offered for export.

And what of reports that the F-117 was offered to the
UK (and declined) years ago?

Janes hasn't had the credibility they once had ever since Kopp scammed them
on e-bombs.

Also somewhat relevant to the JSF and international participation

"A top Norwegian Parliament official warned yesterday that the country
would abandon the Joint Strike Fighter program if project manager
Lockheed Martin Corp. doesn't help Norway's local industries secure
work on the aircraft. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Apr15.html
(http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ir...icle776731.ece for a
norwegian version of the same story)

This is as far as I know, nothing new on the part of Lockheed. The
buy-back contracts for the F-16s we bought 30 years ago have still not
been honored in full by Lockheed as far as I'm aware.

Øystein
--
Roy Batty: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships
on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the
dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain. Time to die.

(=?iso-8859-1?q?=D8ystein_Tvedten?=) wrote:


Also somewhat relevant to the JSF and international participation

"A top Norwegian Parliament official warned yesterday that the country
would abandon the Joint Strike Fighter program if project manager
Lockheed Martin Corp. doesn't help Norway's local industries secure
work on the aircraft. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Apr15.html
(http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ir...icle776731.ece for a
norwegian version of the same story)

This is as far as I know, nothing new on the part of Lockheed. The
buy-back contracts for the F-16s we bought 30 years ago have still not
been honored in full by Lockheed as far as I'm aware.

Øystein
-- Time to die.

Europe needs to get completely out of the JSF program. Amerika is now
the depraved mirror-image of the grotesque degenerate foulness that is
Isreal. They are rotten, and anyone who collaberates with them smears
themselves with the same filthy rottenness. Go with Eurofighter
and/or Rafale/Gripen . Let the foul torturers rot in their own
stinking juice. Death to the Whore!

Grantland