Beginner, Parachutes?

On Nov 20, 9:51*am, wrote:
I think part of the (psychological)
problem that I have is that the Cherokee is so quiet I can HEAR other
airplanes before I can see them.

At my first contest there was a mid air and one pilot died. At my
second contest I was searching for the first turnpoint when I heard
another glider go past before I saw him. It made a lasting impression
on me.

Andy

Bottom-line: Wearing a parachute is a personal choice (in the USA); so
if others choose not to wear one, that's their perogative. You should
feel free to do what you feel is best and safest - not what will make
you popular or fashionable around others. If your club members
ridicule you for trying to be safe, then it's the wrong club to be
associated with!

Take care,

--Noel

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:51:50 -0800 (PST), wrote:
[snip]
chute and never have a problem. I think part of the (psychological)
problem that I have is that the Cherokee is so quiet I can HEAR other
airplanes before I can see them.

I'll see your "hear other airplanes" and raise you one...I've heard a
GLIDER from a glider. Right after I heard its towplane. NMAC's don't
get any more N than that one...

rj

toad wrote:

The clubs (that I know) don't own parachutes and most non-
owners don't either.

Most European clubs have the policy to fly strictly with chute only.
They usually own a chute for each seat of their fleet.

Well, then it sounds like I should buy a parachute after I solo!

On Nov 20, 10:02*am, vic20owner wrote:
Well, then it sounds like I should buy a parachute after I solo!

Actually, since it sounds like you plan on sticking with soaring
(great to hear!) and want a chute, it is never too early to begin
getting used to the care/feeding/operation of a potential critical
life saving device. Buy a chute now and wear it proudly. It makes a
lot more sense to take up the empty space between you and the seatback
with a chute than with crusty club cushions or dirty laundry! I
recommend a Softie as they are very comfortable and have the slowest
decent rate per canopy diameter.

I bought a National for my first chute since I figured I would get
the cheapest chute I could lacking information otherwise. My National
is NOT comfortable on longer flights and never really 'broke in' and
got any better. It also has the highest decent rate/canopy diameter
since it has the least amount of panels/risers which makes the
deployed canopy draw tighter, into smaller diameter and thus be less
effective (in addition to using more porous fabric). A lot of people
swear by Strong chutes, and their track record shows they do indeed
work. I find them overly bulky myself, and (supposedly...) the design
has not been updated since it's inception, despite many material and
technique advances in the industry. There are others of course too,
but those are the 'big three' available at most US glider related
outlets. Any is better than none, as there are more members of the
'caterpiller club' here than we would like to think.

-Paul

On Nov 20, 7:57*am, vic20owner wrote:
Dumb beginner question follows:

I am just starting out flying gliders.... * Here in the USA it seems
nobody wears a parachute unless they are contest flying or doing
aerobatics. *However, I generally do like knowing that I have a backup
plan and a parachute seems reasonable. *I suppose a history of cave
diving has made me sensitive to accident possibilities. *I realize
flying is very safe but gliders tend to fly in circles near each
other.

Would it be premature to buy and wear a parachute while still taking
lessons, or would I quickly become the club's private joke?

thanks

As most pilots come to injury or grief in the landing phase where a
parachute is not a factor, use during training with an instructor is
generally not a factor. Use during competitions and aerobatics does
reflect on the somewhat increased risk associated with types of
flying. That doesn't mean that the rare event where a parachute made
a difference doesn't occur. As mentioned, use by a single person in a
two-seater is generally bad form unless perhaps strapped to a
lightweight person for ballasting purposes. One club took the
position that all training flights would use parachutes and that
policy was fortuitous for the instructor and student when their glider
was hit by a lightning bolt that struck five miles from the cloud,
causing the glider to 'explode'. However, there have been many more
accidents caused at altitudes below parachute effectiveness through
failure to fly the aircraft when finding the canopy unlatched.
Several injuries and fatals have resulted from spins during training
flights, just to compare risks. A German study once concluded that
survival in an incident requiring parachute use below 600m agl was
very low. That said, some emergency chutes are very effective at low
altitudes with good horizontal speed. Not long ago there was a mid-
air between a glider and a jet, the glider pilot survived using his
chute. Several years ago there was a mid-air in the same region, that
pilot was not wearing a chute, but managed to limp back to the the
airport with a fuselage that was nearly severed by the impact. This
past summer there was a mid-air during a competition in the US where
one of the pilots successfully hit the silk and the other was able to
fly back to a safe landings. Note it was during competition, one of
the increased risk scenarios. Several years ago a pilot with a folded
up wing rode his glider into the trees in Florida. Most of these are
rare happenings.

I normally don't wear a chute in the club two-seaters, but I do wear
one in my own gliders. I'm unlikely to use one unless I know the
primary structure has failed. Even then, I have to consider the
outcomes. I bought one of these while flying in the UK http://tinyurl.com/64btg9
Why? Because it's a comfortable chair type chute and my first choice
was several months backordered http://tinyurl.com/55t3fz and I didn't
wish to wait. At the time they were separate companies. Look at the
performance differences. As I fly in the US west mostly, my current
chute is unlikely to allow a landing without injury over the
elevations where we fly. The EB80 is quite a bit different in pack
and performance and will probably be my choice for a replacement one
of these days. About 30 years ago, a pilot doing a high speed pass in
an Open Cirrus VTC fluttered it to pieces. He departed the glider at
about 100ft at 100kts and landed safely in his EB80. No interest in
the company, but a fondness for this rig. I wore one for three years
of flying an SHK. Other pilots will have an appreciation for chutes
that have served them well. A little history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_Club

Frank Whiteley

At 18:40 20 November 2008, Frank Whiteley wrote: (snip)
Why? Because it's a comfortable chair type chute and my first choice
was several months backordered http://tinyurl.com/55t3fz and I didn't
wish to wait.
Frank Whiteley

In the UK it is very unusual for anyone to fly a glider without wearing a
parachute and that includes people on trial lessons. I hesitate to
speculate on whether many would be able to operate the chute.

I have an EB80 which was designed and manufactured by Irvin Airchute (Now
Airborne Systems) and it is designed to open within 700ft. It is certainly
the most comfortable and well made parachute that I have worn.

In message , Don Johnstone
writes
At 18:40 20 November 2008, Frank Whiteley wrote: (snip)
Why? Because it's a comfortable chair type chute and my first choice
was several months backordered http://tinyurl.com/55t3fz and I didn't
wish to wait.
Frank Whiteley

In the UK it is very unusual for anyone to fly a glider without wearing a
parachute and that includes people on trial lessons. I hesitate to
speculate on whether many would be able to operate the chute.

At my club they get a short parachute talk beforehand, and there is at
least one person whose life was saved on his first flight by the
parachute, when the K21 got hit by lightening. Think that was near
Dunstable but don't hold me to it.


I have an EB80 which was designed and manufactured by Irvin Airchute (Now
Airborne Systems) and it is designed to open within 700ft. It is certainly
the most comfortable and well made parachute that I have worn.



--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net

At 07:52 25 November 2008, Surfer! wrote:


At my club they get a short parachute talk beforehand, and there is at
least one person whose life was saved on his first flight by the
parachute, when the K21 got hit by lightening. Think that was near
Dunstable but don't hold me to it.


You are correct and in the report the investigators suggest that the
wearing of a parachute on composite structure gliders is a good idea as
they have little or no protection against strikes. The AAIB report makes
interesting reading and can be found here.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_500699.pdf