Didn't know that....

On Jan 20, 3:51*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?

The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE MINUTE"
Aim for an impact with an 11° body angle and minimum ROD.

Poster

However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes
precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency.
Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude
or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. As a
PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing the
aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible.

That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the
fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone seems
to miss.

I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to
have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority
management.

wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:51 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?
The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE MINUTE"
Aim for an impact with an 11° body angle and minimum ROD.

Poster

However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes
precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency.
Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude
or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. As a
PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing the
aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible.

That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the
fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone seems
to miss.

I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to
have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority
management.


Again, there are 2 pilots in the cockpit, only one is steering the aircraft.
If the captain was flying the aircraft, what was the copilot doing in
those 7-8 minutes if he was not going through the emergency checklist?
What the use of a perfect water landing if then the aircraft quickly
fill with water because the ditching checklist has not been done?

"Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote in news:ex7dl.165906$2w3.143091
@newsfe19.iad:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
wrote in :


She wasn't there either...

in any case she's talking ****. It was a low priority in any case.


Bertie


Like you had a clue.


Snort!


Bertie

George wrote in news:a6ee548c-99b4-4bf2-bda0-
:

On Jan 18, 5:49*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

"It happened so fast, the pilots never had time to throw the
aircraft's "ditch switch," which seals off vents and holes in the
fuselage to make it more seaworthy. "

She wasn't there either...

in any case she's talking sh**. It was a low priority in any case.

Bertie

If she was quoting what the Capt. testified to "we didn't throw the
ditch switch" (or similar) how would this be "talking sh**?

Because it just wasn't all that important. he might have said it , but to
attach any importance to it is crap. Presuming she was quoting him
accurately, the fact she thougth it important enough to repeat deomnstrates
that she has no idea.




Why is the ditch switch a low priority? Is it operable after the plane
has hit water & is (temporarily) floating?


If it has electrics, yes, but It's only going to slow things a tiny bit in
any case. There's a lot of holes in an airplane and it only closes a few of
the holes in the belly.


Bertie

Flydive wrote in :

wrote:


Low priority compared to flying the plane, deadstick, in a congested
urban environment.

Or would you rather he spend time looking for a button on the panel?


Well it takes 3 seconds to flip the switch, you should know where is
located.

one pilot is flying the aircraft, the other one is assisting and going
through the checklist.




Yep, and the checklists can lead you into a workd of trouble. There wasn't
time. In this case, a relight checklist was really all they should have
been interested in.



Bertie

Flydive wrote in :

wrote:
On Jan 20, 10:11 am, Flydive wrote:
wrote:

Low priority compared to flying the plane, deadstick, in a
congested
urban environment.
Or would you rather he spend time looking for a button on the
panel?
Well it takes 3 seconds to flip the switch, you should know where is
located.

one pilot is flying the aircraft, the other one is assisting and
going
through the checklist.

Yep.

Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?

One may assume that since it was not flipped it was not at the top of
the list and thus was of a lower priority. Flying the airplane and
only those steps necessary to (1) avoid obstacles while (2) setting
up
for landing are of high(est) priority.

The ditch switch is at the top of the ditching checklist and usually
is
a memory item, if you are going to ditch I would say is a priority
item.


Only if you have time. Ditchig checklists don't have any memory items at
all, and in fact Bus checklists, with most airlines, have very few
memory drills. Lkikely the only memory checks are the engine fire drill
and a pressurisations blowout, and those would have only the initial
itiems on them.


Airliners have 2 pilots and usually only one of them is handling the
controls, the other one takes care of the emergency and assists the
flying pilot. You say setting up for landing, well if you are
"landing"

No, you tell him to do what you need him to do in the circumstance. In
this case, the non handler was probably try to relight and telling the
cabin and ATC waht was happening.

in water the water, prepare the aircraft for ditching is part of it, a
priority.

Nope, not in this case. if they didn;t fly the airplane, the holes in
the bottom of the airplane would have been the least of their problems,
since they would have made significantly larger holes.









Bertie

wrote in :

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST), wrote:


Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?

The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE MINUTE"
Aim for an impact with an 11° body angle and minimum ROD.


Yep, and you have spent ag god couple of minutes diggin out the checklist
and reading it out.
Their rod would have been in the region of 1200 FPM, on average. The
priority woudl be a relight and loing for a place to land. Not reaidng the
checklist.


Bertie

wrote in
:

On Jan 20, 3:51*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?

The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE
MINUTE" Aim for an impact with an 11° body angle and minimum ROD.

Poster

However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes
precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency.
Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude
or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. As a
PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing the
aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible.

That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the
fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone seems
to miss.

Exactly.

I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to
have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority
management.


I'd agree, it;'s hard to argue wiht success. Like many accidents of this
sort, these gusy will have rewritten the book.


Bertie

Flydive wrote in :

wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:51 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?
The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE
MINUTE" Aim for an impact with an 11° body angle and minimum ROD.

Poster

However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes
precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency.
Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude
or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. As a
PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing
the aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible.

That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the
fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone
seems to miss.

I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to
have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority
management.


Again, there are 2 pilots in the cockpit, only one is steering the
aircraft. If the captain was flying the aircraft, what was the copilot
doing in those 7-8 minutes if he was not going through the emergency
checklist? What the use of a perfect water landing if then the
aircraft quickly fill with water because the ditching checklist has
not been done?


There were dozens of things he would be doing. One, determining waht the
problem was.
Then, dealing with the immediate problem, an engine failure. Immediate
relight attempt. Probably the APU was fired up to assist in the relight.
as they would have been too slow for a windmill start.
Then a quick call to ATC and probalby a couple of nav selections for the
captain to look for a runway they could plunk it on.Then back to the
relight drill. We're taught to keep trying that to the bitter end, BTW.
They take a minute or so so he wouldn't have had time for more than one
or two, and that would have been after the APU had fired up, say at
abotu 1200'. A couple of calls to the cabin would have been tossed in
their somewhere as well.
The act of picking up the book and finding the ditching checklist would
have taken a good 20-30 seconds...Time they simply did not have.
And this scenario is not done in the sim, so there would have been no
trigger for it. BTW, I'm beign generous with the actions they may or may
not have accomplished in the time they had. But all of them would come
ahead of doing a "nice to do " ditching checklist.



Bertie

ah wrote in news:4973fef3$0$57681
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:6thqo1FartetU2
@mid.individual.net:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:49:45 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:


Actually they can in most arplanes. The 'bus has one that will do
the
whole lot in one go, though. Some old Brit airplanes had the same
thing. you know,in case "Gerry snuck up on us over la Manch after a
jolly good thrashing of Dresden"

Thank you for your answer.
There is only one thing: The ditch switch on flight 1549 was not
activated as reported by the NTSB interview.


You don' tknow that.


The crew didn't have time


You don' tknow that either.

to flick the switch. So, Captain C.B. Sullenberger III is after all
just a human being. The plane floated anyway. For a while at least.

What about the in-flight tea reserves?

Well, if you want to get into a nightmare situation..


Bertie