Fighter Aircraft Alternates?

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 22:27:19 -0700, hobo wrote:

In article ,
Mary Shafer wrote:


F-15E over the F-16XL, although I don't know how formal the fly off
was.

How good was the F-16xl? Some people say it would have been produced if
it could super-cruise.


The F-16XL mod started as SCAMP which IIRC stood for Supersonic Cruise
Aircraft Modification Program. And it could. . .just. It had nothing
to do with why it lost though. The F-15 was chosen because it was
two-man, bigger radar, twin engine, bigger payload, and longer range.
Not to mention the fact that at the time McD was demoing the hell out
of the "new" SAR modes of the APG-63 and it was pretty impressive.

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 05:38:55 -0600, Scott Ferrin
wrote:
The F-111 won over the Boeing and Republic for the TFX. Pretty much
everybody felt the Boeing design was the best but good old MacNamara
thought he was an aircraft designer and had a different agenda to boot
so they got the GD entry. Personally I thought the Republic design
looked the coolest.


Any links?

Scott Ferrin wrote:


The F-16XL mod started as SCAMP which IIRC stood for Supersonic Cruise
Aircraft Modification Program. And it could. . .just. It had nothing
to do with why it lost though. The F-15 was chosen because it was
two-man, bigger radar, twin engine, bigger payload, and longer range.
Not to mention the fact that at the time McD was demoing the hell out
of the "new" SAR modes of the APG-63 and it was pretty impressive.

Not to mention that the F-16 radars were notorious little
pieces of crap...

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 11:54:27 GMT, Robert
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 05:38:55 -0600, Scott Ferrin
wrote:
The F-111 won over the Boeing and Republic for the TFX. Pretty much
everybody felt the Boeing design was the best but good old MacNamara
thought he was an aircraft designer and had a different agenda to boot
so they got the GD entry. Personally I thought the Republic design
looked the coolest.


Any links?


Hope you can read French because the English option seems to be
busted.

http://prototypes.free.fr/f111b/f111b-1.htm

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 16:34:34 -0600, Scott Ferrin
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 11:54:27 GMT, Robert
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 05:38:55 -0600, Scott Ferrin
wrote:
The F-111 won over the Boeing and Republic for the TFX. Pretty much
everybody felt the Boeing design was the best but good old MacNamara
thought he was an aircraft designer and had a different agenda to boot
so they got the GD entry. Personally I thought the Republic design
looked the coolest.


Any links?


Hope you can read French because the English option seems to be
busted.

http://prototypes.free.fr/f111b/f111b-1.htm


Thanks! Not a problem, a picture is worth a thousand words... =)

actually the yf17 lost out to yf 16. later the yf17 was midified to the 18
and adopted by the navy

the a10 beat out the a9 from northrup

F14 was adopted after a naval version of the F111 was dropped due to weight
issues. naval version was F111b

"Richard Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hi Guys,
Just wondering what the alternate (losing) choices were for the main US
older fighter aircraft?

eg. I know the YF17 lost out to the F18...

But what were the competitors to the rest (you don't need to go back too
far) - that's if they actually HAD competitors...

F14?
F15?
F16?
A10?
F117?
(have I missed any?)

and any pix?

Cheers,
Richard

Richard Stewart wrote:
Hi Guys,
Just wondering what the alternate (losing) choices
were for the main US
older fighter aircraft?

eg. I know the YF17 lost out to the F18...

But what were the competitors to the rest (you
don't need to go back too
far) - that's if they actually HAD competitors...

F14?
F15?
F16?
A10?
F117?
(have I missed any?)

and any pix?

Cheers,
Richard

There were no flyoffs for the F-14 and F-15 programs: Grumann beat out
their competiton on paper, and McAir did the same with the F-15. The F-16
beat the YF-17 for the LWF (Lightweight Fighter) Program, and the YF-17 was
modified to become the F/A-18. The AX program had the A-9 from Northrop and
the A-10 from Fairchild Republic. Fairchild Republic won, and the two A-9s
went to Museums. Stealth was between Lockheed and Northrop in both the Fighter
(F-117) and Bomber (B-2) programs, Lockheed of course won the fighter and
Northrop won the bomber competitions (with tech deomonstrators, not prototypes).


Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 16:09:03 -0700, Mary Shafer
wrote:

and any pix?

You can see the YF-17 and F-18, F-14, F-15, F-16, and F-16XL in the
gallery at www.dfrc.nasa.gov

Here's a pic of the F-16XL ...

http://freejigsawpuzzles.com/beta/be..._F16XL1994.htm

Although you'll have to do a little bit of work to uncover it :-)

Pete Lilleyman

(please get rid of ".getrid" to reply direct)
(don't get rid of the dontspam though ;-)

Don't forget the F-4H (McDonnell) vs the F-8U-3 (Chance Vought). Or is
that "too far"?

Jim Thomas


Robert wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 15:53:51 +1000, Richard Stewart
wrote:

Hi Guys,
Just wondering what the alternate (losing) choices were for the main US
older fighter aircraft?

eg. I know the YF17 lost out to the F18...

But what were the competitors to the rest (you don't need to go back too
far) - that's if they actually HAD competitors...

F14?
F15?
F16?
A10?
F117?
(have I missed any?)

and any pix?

Cheers,
Richard

F-15:
Boeing, Fairchild Republic, General Dynamics, Grumman, Lockheed, LTV,
McDonnell Douglas and North American / Rockwell all submitted
proposals for the F-X competition, but only the winning entry
(McDonnell Douglas) was built, as the F-15 Eagle.

A-10:
Boeing, Cessna, Fairchild Republic, General Dynamics, Lockheed and
Northrop submitted proposals for the A-X competition. Fairchild
Republic and Northrop were selected to build competing prototypes, as
the YA-10 and YA-9, respectively.

See:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...k/a6/a6-10.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...k/a6/a6-11.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...k/a6/a6-12.htm

F-16:
Boeing (Model 908-909), General Dynamics (Model 401-16B), LTV
(V-1100), Lockheed (CL-1200 and CL-1600) and Northrop (P-600)
submitted proposals for the LWF competition (LightWeight Fighter).
General Dynamics and Northrop were selected to build competing
prototypes, as the YF-16 and YF-17, respectively. The YF-16 was chosen
as the winner. Northrop further developed, with McDonnell Douglas, the
YF-17 into the F-18, which was selected by the USN (over a navalized
F-16).

See:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...ghter/f16a.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/f17.htm

F-117:
Northrop and Lockheed submitted proposals for the XST program
(eXperimental Survivable Testbed). Only the Lockheed entry was
selected to build two prototypes, which were developed into the F-117.

See:
http://www.f-117a.com/XST.html


I don't have much data right at hand about F-14 development. No other
competing designs were built, though. As for others: F-15E vs F-16XL,
A-16 vs YA-7F, YF-22 vs YF-23, X-32 vs X-35 are the only recent ones
that come to mind

Robert wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 16:34:34 -0600, Scott Ferrin
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 11:54:27 GMT, Robert
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 05:38:55 -0600, Scott Ferrin
wrote:
The F-111 won over the Boeing and Republic for the TFX. Pretty much
everybody felt the Boeing design was the best but good old MacNamara
thought he was an aircraft designer and had a different agenda to boot
so they got the GD entry. Personally I thought the Republic design
looked the coolest.


Any links?


Hope you can read French because the English option seems to be
busted.

http://prototypes.free.fr/f111b/f111b-1.htm


Thanks! Not a problem, a picture is worth a thousand words... =)

aka: Republic-Fokker D-24 Alliance (1965)

A really rare and virtually unknown project/mock-up.

http://www.aerofiles.com/repub-d24.jpg
http://www.aerofiles.com/repub-d24model.jpg
http://aerostories.free.fr/dossiers/...okAlliance.JPG

Rob