I give up, after many, many years!

Benjamin Dover writes:

BULL ****. You land by "the seat of your pants".

How are computers able to land aircraft, then?

Nomen Nescio writes:

I regularly travel a stretch of highway about 100 miles long.
2 trips
same time of the day
same traffic
same speed
When I use cruise control for the entire trip, I average about 18 mpg.
When I use my foot the whole way, I average over 20 mpg.

Do you look out the window, or look at the speedometer, or do you drive
blindfolded and rely on sensations?

Why do airline operators prefer that their pilots use a flight management
computer instead of flying by hand?

Clark writes:

A book does not equal a simulator.

Actually it does. It describes flying without actually allowing a person to
experience it. The distinction in this debate is between the alleged unique
and essential character of real experience vs. simulation of real experience.
Simulation can take many forms, and is not found only in the form of a desktop
PC program. Reading about something is simulation. So is an instructor's
illustration with paper and pencil or with a model airplane. If simulation
with a PC cannot be adequate, then neither can anything else.

However, the reality is that simulation is fine. The closer it is to reality
and the more accurate it is, the more useful it is, but anything that
simulates with any accuracy at all is always useful.

The apology is in order for claiming that you know better than the folks
who have gone before you when you haven't made the journey yourself.

I owe nothing to them, and I feel no obligation to preserve or inflate their
egos. I merely discuss aviation. Other people are names on a screen. I
evaluate what they say by comparing it to what I read and learn from other
sources. When I see high correlations, I assume that I'm getting accurate
information. When I see large conflicts, I assume that someone or something
is wrong. To me it's all facts and information, not personalities. I'm sorry
if some people are so insecure that they cannot sustain a conversation without
constant praise and validation, but that is their problem, not mine.

Everything about flying the aircraft requires an instructor present until
you solo.

Why?

Why do you claim that?

Actually, I consider it self-evident.

Tell ya what, survey practical simulator use in
flight training (or just about any training) and get back to us on how many
simulators are used without instructors present.

People use simulators with instructors mainly so that they can officially log
the hours in some way, not because simulators are not useful without
instructors. Part of the instructor's role is just to verify that the student
really is using the simulator.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:cPsXj.113142$TT4.57109@attbi_s22:

There has to be something that a simulator can offer that does not
require the instructor to be present.

Much depends on the level of your simulator. If you have something
like our Penguin (see it he
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/flight_simulator.htm ) you can learn a
lot.


Of ****#



Bertie

Nomen Nescio writes:

You read something, misinterpreted it, and now think it's a fact.

I read many things, see claims here that conflict with what I read, and tend
to trust what I read. No amount of emotion or invective here will sway me
from that policy.

Give it up. You don't understand. You will never understand.
And it does not matter because you will never fly.

Given the vehemence of your replies, it must matter to you a great deal.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

gatt writes:

The ones that are ignored are different sensations and typically have
to do with equilibrium and the inner ear. Examples are somatogravic
and coriolis and inversion illusions. If your ass leaves the seat or
compresses into it, however, it's not something you ignore.

Yes, it is, because it is no more reliable than any other sensation.

If you enter a coordinated turn at constant altitude, your buttocks
will tell you that you are climbing ... but you aren't. Your inner
ear will tell you the same thing, and it will be just as wrong.

There aren't many/any RC pilots who haven't catastrophically augured
an RC plane.

Of those who have, how did they manage, without sensation? Indeed,
how do they ever manage on any flight, without sensation?

UAV systems are much more sophisticated than those in the
average single-engine piston airplane, and--I've not flown a UAV so
I'm guessing here--they're not doing things like steep-bank turns or
short-field approaches.

But aviation is more than single-engine piston airplanes ... much
more.

Those are different sensations and you have to know the difference
and also what to reject or ignore. VFR pilots are subject to similar
but different sensations such as visual autokinesis, reversal of
motion and black hole approaches.

Can you fly safely with your eyes closed, relying only on sensations,
and selectively ignoring or accepting the sensations you feel?

You can have those sensations while remaining perfectly still in
normal flight. When your ass is sliding toward the inside or outside
of a turn, or getting compressed into the seat or lifted into the lap
belt, those are not illusions.

But they may not be what you think they are, either.

What people are asserting here is 180 degrees different from what I
read in all the literature. You cannot fly by the seat of your pants.
You can't fly based on sensations. They are too unreliable.
Conversely, you can fly without sensations, as long as you have visual
and/or instrument information.


You're a moron. You're not competent to read with comprehension.
Anthony, you don't know **** from shinola.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Nomen Nescio writes:

You read something, misinterpreted it, and now think it's a fact.

I read many things, see claims here that conflict with what I read,
and tend to trust what I read. No amount of emotion or invective here
will sway me from that policy.

Give it up. You don't understand. You will never understand.
And it does not matter because you will never fly.

Given the vehemence of your replies, it must matter to you a great
deal.


Anthony, the fecal matter you call a brain lacks the capacity to comprehend
what you read. You don't know **** from shinola.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

There is no visual reference that will tell you whether or not you
are coordinated in a turn and there is nothing magical or mystical to
the sensation once you've felt it.

Well, close your eyes and make the turn, and see where you end up.

True but irrelevant.

On the contrary, it's important. Can you really be sure that your
turn is perfectly coordinated and that you are holding altitude
without ever looking at the instruments? How do you know how far
you've turned? How do you tell the difference between an
uncoordinated turn and being pushed by the wind?

In VFR you are much safer looking out the window than staring at the
instruments like a simmer, especially in a turn.

In VFR you are safest if you do both. And you can look out the window
in a sim, too.

Wrong.

How do you know the difference between a coordinated turn and, say, an
uncoordinated turn that encounters wind that moves the aircraft? If
you depend on sensation alone, an updraft or downdraft might make you
think that an uncoordinated turn is level and coordinated, when in
fact it is uncoordinated and you are climbing or descending.


Anthony, are you talking from your exensive experience in up/down drafts in
a real airplane or is this yet another of your fantasies while jerking off
to MSFS?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Benjamin Dover writes:

BULL ****. You land by "the seat of your pants".

How are computers able to land aircraft, then?


They don't land nearly as softly as a real pilot can. Its obvious who
landed the aircraft when you're a pax and know what the sensation to look
for is. Something you will, fortunately, NEVER COMPREHEND. You don't know
**** from shinola.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Nomen Nescio writes:

I regularly travel a stretch of highway about 100 miles long.
2 trips
same time of the day
same traffic
same speed
When I use cruise control for the entire trip, I average about 18 mpg.
When I use my foot the whole way, I average over 20 mpg.

Do you look out the window, or look at the speedometer, or do you drive
blindfolded and rely on sensations?

Why do airline operators prefer that their pilots use a flight management
computer instead of flying by hand?


Another questions which is beyond your ability to comprehend. If you could
think, you wouldn't have had to as the question. You're too ****ing stupid
to think.