I give up, after many, many years!

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

People use simulators with instructors mainly so that they can
officially log the hours in some way, not because simulators are not
useful without instructors. Part of the instructor's role is just to
verify that the student really is using the simulator.


No, you ****ing retard. The instructor is there to ensure you are using
the simulator properly and learning stuff which will let you live when you
enter real IMC.

Mxsmanic wrote

Nomen Nescio writes:
Give it up. You don't understand. You will never understand.
And it does not matter because you will never fly.

Given the vehemence of your replies, it must matter to you a
great deal.


For the love of this Group please
stop, Stop,... STOP REPLYING TO MX.

He is the person in the Movie House who tries to start a conversation during
the movie. Ignore him, move away, but please don't lecture him about the
importance of not talking during the movie. HE KNOWS!

"Mike Isaksen" wrote in
newsYAXj.1110$pk1.418@trndny07:

Mxsmanic wrote

Nomen Nescio writes:
Give it up. You don't understand. You will never understand.
And it does not matter because you will never fly.

Given the vehemence of your replies, it must matter to you a
great deal.


For the love of this Group please
stop, Stop,... STOP REPLYING TO MX.

He is the person in the Movie House who tries to start a conversation
during the movie. Ignore him, move away, but please don't lecture him
about the importance of not talking during the movie. HE KNOWS!





And you're the one who shouts "fire"

Bertie

What people are asserting here is 180 degrees different from what I
read in all the literature. You cannot fly by the seat of your pants.
You can't fly based on sensations. They are too unreliable.
Conversely, you can fly without sensations, as long as you have visual
and/or instrument information.


You're a moron. You're not competent to read with comprehension.
Anthony, you don't know **** from shinola.

Presuming we're talking about IFR flight, what, precisely, do you find
incorrect in MX's paragraph, above?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in news:erBXj.113694
$TT4.102500@attbi_s22:

What people are asserting here is 180 degrees different from what I
read in all the literature. You cannot fly by the seat of your pants.
You can't fly based on sensations. They are too unreliable.
Conversely, you can fly without sensations, as long as you have visual
and/or instrument information.


You're a moron. You're not competent to read with comprehension.
Anthony, you don't know **** from shinola.

Presuming we're talking about IFR flight, what, precisely, do you find
incorrect in MX's paragraph, above?

Snort! I love it when k00ks start to slurp each other for a bit of comfort.


Bertie

On May 17, 8:53*am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

Presuming we're talking about IFR flight, what, precisely, do you find
incorrect in MX's paragraph, above?

Flying by sensation Jay. To make a blank statement you cannot fly in
IMC by sensations is flat out wrong.

While you have to ignore SOME sensations while flying inside a cloud,
some sensations give you warning of impending danger.

Somebody already pointed out stall buffering. That is a sensation you
DON'T want to feel inside a cloud that will not show up on an
instrument until it's too late.

You would also be surprised, flying by the seat of your pants does
work wonders on an ILS approach, especially when you slip slightly
below glideslope and adding power to recapture the glide slope can be
felt in the seat of your pants, which is a confirmation of what the
instruments are reading. If you don't feel that firmness in the seat
of your pants, then something is drastically wrong.

There are times inside the clag, where you feel more in the seat of
your pants better then in VMC because your senses are more heightened.
When you add throttle, you should expect to feel some firmness in the
seat of your pants, when you reduce, you should feel less. If you
don't feel it, something is wrong.

Hearing is a sense, something that cannot be ignored. Not sure if you
saw my last post on a video about a vacuum problem in IMC, so I am
talking from first hand experience.

Listening to your engine is a secondary airspeed ***TREND***
indicator. Ignore that, and you will be in more of a boatload of
trouble when your vacuum system goes belly up. Hearing my engine
while under partial panel procedures probably was the sense that made
my life exponentially easier, and the last I know of, hearing is a
sense or a sensation..

When used correctly, your senses CONFIRM what you see on the gauges,
but when it comes to hearing and feeling, some of those signals cannot
be ignored especially when gauges give conflicting information (I.E
vacuum failure). When gauges give conflicting information, the
emphasis become a little more on senses to bring your skin back home
in one piece.

Sims are great for IFR procedures, but they do not simulate the real
deal. The hood doesn't do it for the real deal.

I have taken instrument students and VFR pilots in IMC and afterwards,
their reactions have been priceless.

If you have not done so yourself, you may want to hitch a ride with a
IA pilot and see what it's like to fly an approach even down to 1000
feet AGL which in most cases is not even close to minimums. 1000
feet AGL on a standard descent is only two minutes from being in a
milk bottle to touchdown.

ILS minimums, it's only 20 seconds. The more you use your senses WITH
instruments in IMC, the better chance your outcome will be.

On May 17, 4:44*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

Why do airline operators prefer that their pilots use a flight management
computer instead of flying by hand?

Misconception here. The FMC doesnt "Fly" the aircraft, it directs it.
You can hand fly with the FMC for guidance. The main purpose of the
autopilot is to manage the workload. FWIW I hand fly ALL approaches
that I am legal to do so.
Frank

On May 17, 7:33 am, "F. Baum" wrote:
On May 17, 4:44 am, Mxsmanic wrote:

Why do airline operators prefer that their pilots use a flight management
computer instead of flying by hand?

Misconception here. The FMC doesnt "Fly" the aircraft, it directs it.
You can hand fly with the FMC for guidance. The main purpose of the
autopilot is to manage the workload. FWIW I hand fly ALL approaches
that I am legal to do so.
Frank

A misconception in r.a.p, Bertie must be posting again.
Don't blame the group, blame its parents.

Guys like Yeager and Neil Armstrong where 2 in a
million, smack in the golden age of jet aviation.

After flying model's, and doing real piloting ,with the
advent of the electronic computer I/we designed started
aeronautical modeling, like a computerized wind tunnel.
Soon computer power, speed and memory enabled writing
a cockpit program to "fly" the model.
Personally, I could learn more aeronautical science
using that program in 1 hour than I could flying 10
hours, but both are necessary. I was able to flight
test more X-craft than Yeager and Armstrong put
together!
That differs from a toy or professional simulator,
because it put's us inside a scientific experiment,
that we can control and program experiments.

The words "aeronautical/aerospace sims" cover a
very broad range of software/hardware.
Ken

A Lieberman writes:

Flying by sensation Jay. To make a blank statement you cannot fly in
IMC by sensations is flat out wrong.

It's entirely right. You cannot trust sensations in IMC. You must trust your
instruments.

While you have to ignore SOME sensations while flying inside a cloud,
some sensations give you warning of impending danger.

The instruments do a better job of that, and they are consistent and reliable.

Somebody already pointed out stall buffering. That is a sensation you
DON'T want to feel inside a cloud that will not show up on an
instrument until it's too late.

If you are watching your instruments and you know your aircraft, why are you
experiencing stall buffet?

You would also be surprised, flying by the seat of your pants does
work wonders on an ILS approach ...

I'm not sure that I'd want ILS needles in the seat of my pants.

... especially when you slip slightly
below glideslope and adding power to recapture the glide slope can be
felt in the seat of your pants, which is a confirmation of what the
instruments are reading.

You have it backwards: The instruments confirm, not the sensations. You don't
need a confirmation of instruments. If there is a disagreement between
sensations and instruments, the instruments take priority.

If you don't feel that firmness in the seat of your pants, then
something is drastically wrong.

If you're instruments tell you that you're in trouble, you're in trouble. If
they tell you that you're not in trouble, you're safe. The seat of your pants
may tell you all sorts of things, but relying on it will result in an
accident.

There are times inside the clag, where you feel more in the seat of
your pants better then in VMC because your senses are more heightened.

Completely false. In IMC, you must trust your instruments if you want to stay
alive. Ignore what you feel.

When you add throttle, you should expect to feel some firmness in the
seat of your pants, when you reduce, you should feel less. If you
don't feel it, something is wrong.

Look at your instruments; they'll tell you if something is wrong.

ILS minimums, it's only 20 seconds. The more you use your senses WITH
instruments in IMC, the better chance your outcome will be.

You aren't in IMC below minimums.

Nomen Nescio wrote in
:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "Jay Honeck"

What people are asserting here is 180 degrees different from what I
read in all the literature. You cannot fly by the seat of your
pants.
You can't fly based on sensations. They are too unreliable.
Conversely, you can fly without sensations, as long as you have
visual and/or instrument information.


You're a moron. You're not competent to read with comprehension.
Anthony, you don't know **** from shinola.

Presuming we're talking about IFR flight, what, precisely, do you find
incorrect in MX's paragraph, above?

Many years ago, on a bet, I did a pretty fair 4 point
roll.......BLINDFOLDED! I got lunch and a half dozen beers out of the
deal.

Hopefully after the flight and not before. I'm nauseous just thinking of
doing that!


Bertie