Al Gore's Private Jet

"Jim Logajan" wrote:



The evidence is clear that something is wrong with the above claims.


The ratio of carbon isotopes C-12, C-13, and C-14 found in fossil fuels and
the ocean are known and provide tell-tale "signatures". The ratio of those
carbon isotopes in the atmosphere have been measured with respect to time
and the isotopic evidence indicates the increase of carbon dioxide in the
atmosphere is most probably due to the burning of fossil fuels.

(The first person to use isotopic ratios to determine the source of
atmospheric carbon dioxide was Hans Suess as far back as 1955. In
particular, the dilution of C-14 due to fossil fuels is known as the Suess
Effect.)



http://www.radix.net/~bobg/faqs/scq.CO2rise.html

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

"Jim Logajan" wrote:

6. Human activity currently releases 6 billion tons of CO2 per year.



The evidence is clear that something is wrong with the above claims.


....and shouldn't that be 6GT of *carbon* each year? Has the professor
confused CO2 with carbon?

Jose wrote:
Some girls came to my door last night selling candy to save the
Panda's from Global Warming. (true)

Should I have bought some?

Maybe you could have traded the superfluous apostrophe for some
candy.



I was going to ask, "Save the Panda's what from GW?"

"Dan Luke" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote:

6. Human activity currently releases 6 billion tons of CO2 per year.

The evidence is clear that something is wrong with the above claims.


...and shouldn't that be 6GT of *carbon* each year? Has the professor
confused CO2 with carbon?

According to the U.S. EPA the claim seems to be in the right order of
magnitude, though is indicates the U.S. alone produces the equivalent of
~6 billion tons of CO2 per year:

http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/RAMR6P5M5M/$File/06FastFacts.pdf

"Jim Logajan" wrote:


6. Human activity currently releases 6 billion tons of CO2 per year.

The evidence is clear that something is wrong with the above claims.


...and shouldn't that be 6GT of *carbon* each year? Has the professor
confused CO2 with carbon?

According to the U.S. EPA the claim seems to be in the right order of
magnitude, though is indicates the U.S. alone produces the equivalent of
~6 billion tons of CO2 per year:

http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/RAMR6P5M5M/$File/06FastFacts.pdf



But according to the USGS, the total global human contribution of CO2 is 4
times that amount:

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/Wh...html#reference


"Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million
tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach,
1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes,
about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil
fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 22 billion
tonnes per year (24 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 1998) - The reference
gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2.]. Human activities
release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the
equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits
about 13.2 million tonnes/year)"


It appears to me that the professor *has* confused carbon with CO2, and his
argument collapses, no?

"Matt Barrow" wrote:
Regarding the environmentalists' concern over CO2, here are some facts
nobody argues with:

I'm not an environmentalist, but I do in fact dispute some of the
following alleged facts:

1. Atmospheric pressure is about 15 psi (pounds/in./in.).

Close enough - no argument.

2. Earth's radius is about 4,000 miles.

Close enough - no argument.

3. CO2 constituted about 0.04 per cent of the atmosphere in 1950--.

Disputed. See sources [1][2][3]. It was ~0.03%. (~300 ppmv)

4. CO2 now constitutes more like 0.06 per cent of the atmosphere.

Disputed. See sources [1][2][3]. It is now ~0.038%. (~380 ppmv)

From #2 we calculate that the Earth's surface area is 0.8 billion
billion
square inches. And from #1 that the atmosphere weighs 11.9 billion
billion pounds. This is 6 million billion tons. Now take fact #3; 0.04
per cent is 2,400 billion tons of CO2. Half (the change since 1950) is
1,200 billion tons. Let's call this fact #5:



5. There were 2,400 billion tons of CO2 in the atmosphere in 1950;
3,600 billion tons now, give or take a psi or two--.

Disputed. Arithmetic based on erroneous input. Revision yields ~1,800
billion tons in 1950 and ~2,280 billion tons now. The _entire_ change is
~480 billion tons. A dispute of a factor of 2.5.

6. Human activity currently releases 6 billion tons of CO2 per year.

Disputed. See source [4]. It is currently around 25 billion tons of CO2
per year.

7. Non-human activity (oceans, trees, Pinatubo, Mauna Loa, etc.)
releases 200 billion tons of CO2 per year--.

Disputed - source and relevance?

Now compare fact #5 with fact #6. Simple division tells you that if
every molecule of human-released CO2 at the current rate of production
stayed in the atmosphere, it would take another 200 years for the
post-1950 change to be matched. Or looking at it backward, since minus
200 years takes us back to before the Industrial Revolution, it means
that if every CO2 molecule from every factory, car, steam engine,
barbecue, campfire, and weenie roast that ever was since the first
liberal climbed down out of a tree right up until today was still in
the atmosphere. It still wouldn't account for the change in CO2 since
1950.

Disputed. See revisions in steps above. At current human production rates
the observed increase would take only ~20 years, not 200.

Fact #7 has been going on for a long time, a lot longer than any
piddling 200 years. Comparing #5 and #7 means it takes about 12
yearsfor the average CO2 molecule to be recycled back out of the
atmosphere.

Disputed. See above revisions and reference [4]. The amount of CO2 dumped
into the atmosphere since 1950 appears to _exceed_ the amount of change
seen in atmospheric concentrations - not the other way around.

Given the above, here are some conclusions that nobody can argue with
and still claim to be a reasoning creatu

Premises are in dispute so the conclusions are in fact arguable.

8. Human activity, carried out at the present rate indefinately (more
than 12 years) cannot possibly account for more than 6 per cent of the
observed change in CO2 levels.

Disputed. See above corrections - human activity produced _more_ CO2 than
the increase observed in the atmosphere.

9. Entirely shutting off civilizationor even killing everybodycould
only have a tiny effect on global warming, if there is any such
thing--.

Disputed. Strawman. No sane participant is proposing to "shut off"
civilization or kill everyone.

That leaves two questions that no one knows how to answer:

Q-1. Why do all these supposedly educated, supposedly sane people want
to end civilization?

Non sequitur. No previous mention or references were made of these crazy,
er, "sane" and "civilized" people. Names and sources?

Q-2. Since humanity can't possibly be causing the CO2 level to go up,
isn't it time to start wondering about what is?

Premise is disputed so the question is erroneously founded. See above.

L. Van Zandt, Professor of Physics,

Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana

A Google search indicates the above quoted material probably originated
as a letter to the magazine "National Review" allegedly around 1992.
Proper and full attribution would be helpful since so many of the alleged
facts are reasonably disputed.

Sources:

[1] http://epa.gov/climatechange/emissions/co2.html
[2] http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/ggccebro/chapter1.html
[3] http://cdiac.ornl.gov/ftp/trends/co2/maunaloa.co2
[4] http://epa.gov/climatechange/emissions/globalghg.html

7. Non-human activity (oceans, trees, Pinatubo, Mauna Loa, etc.) releases
200 billion tons of CO2 per year--.

Is that net? Trees also consume CO2, though I suppose on their demise
all that carbon goes =somewhere=.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Dan Luke" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote:
6. Human activity currently releases 6 billion tons of CO2 per
year.

The evidence is clear that something is wrong with the above
claims.


...and shouldn't that be 6GT of *carbon* each year? Has the
professor confused CO2 with carbon?

According to the U.S. EPA the claim seems to be in the right order of
magnitude, though is indicates the U.S. alone produces the equivalent
of ~6 billion tons of CO2 per year:

http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/RAMR6P5M5M/$File/06FastFacts.pdf

But according to the USGS, the total global human contribution of CO2
is 4 times that amount:

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/Wh...html#reference

No discrepancy, really, between ~6x10^9 tons/year for only the U.S. and
~22x10^9 tons/year worldwide.

It appears to me that the professor *has* confused carbon with CO2,
and his argument collapses, no?

There are many aspects of the copy-and-pasted material that are
disputable. I just posted elsewhere all the items that are in fact
arguable. The source of the errors is, to me at least, academic.

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"Jim Logajan" wrote:


6. Human activity currently releases 6 billion tons of CO2 per year.

The evidence is clear that something is wrong with the above claims.


...and shouldn't that be 6GT of *carbon* each year? Has the professor
confused CO2 with carbon?

According to the U.S. EPA the claim seems to be in the right order of
magnitude, though is indicates the U.S. alone produces the equivalent of
~6 billion tons of CO2 per year:

http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/RAMR6P5M5M/$File/06FastFacts.pdf



But according to the USGS, the total global human contribution of CO2 is 4
times that amount:

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/Wh...html#reference


"Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230
million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every
year (Gerlach, 1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and
submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human
activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas
flaring, amount to about 22 billion tonnes per year (24 billion tons) [
( Marland, et al., 1998)


Gee...where did it all go?

- The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than
CO2.]. Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2
emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes
like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)"


It appears to me that the professor *has* confused carbon with CO2, and
his argument collapses, no?

Check a couple other sources.

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:46:59 -0500, "Dan Luke"
wrote:

"Matt Barrow" wrote:

politicalization

http://www.tjcenter.org/muzzles/muzz...ve-2007#item01


Do you ever bother to read the About Us tab on a website before citing
it? Check the Board of Trustees for the TJ Center.




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"R" for partial nudity and graphic violence.