GA is priceless

Jay Honeck wrote:

The most important thing is to =stay= in the roundabout until you
=know=, with sufficient lead time, where you get out.

No, the most important thing is for taxpayers (AKA: "Users") to lynch
traffic "engineers" who insist on foisting such silliness as
"roundabouts", "left turn only" arrows, and other "traffic calming
devices" on the rest of us.

snip

Don't knock the roundabouts just because Americans haven't figured out how
to use them. They are much more efficient for intersections where the
probability of traffic entering/leaving the intersection in any direction
is about equal. Since we don't actually stop at 4 way stops anyway this is
a much better system.....if we learn how to use it. Without the education
part we loose the benefit.

As to lynching traffic engineers....First in line are the ones who have
forgotten about flashing yellows. I pass two intersections regularly where
they had to put up traffic lights for the rush (half) hour but never revert
to flashing yellow. Now instead of some people occasionally waiting during
the day _everybody_ waits most of the time.

--
Frank....H

Mxsmanic wrote:
It is one way in which some simulations are different. But this
difference can be good rather than bad, if you are trying to learn
instrument flight.

Since you've never learned instrument flight (i.e. flown in real-world
IMC) how would you know? I would agree with you that it's easier on
the sim. It's still demonstrates a flaw in the simulation.

But it wasn't until I actually DID it, in a real
airplane, with real mass/inertia, real turbulence, etc, that I found
out it was nothing like my imagination or my experience in the sims.

We all have our personalities to deal with. But we don't all react in
the same ways.

Rather an obtuse statement. So? You don't know how you will react
until you've done it.

But that would not be like real life. If a pilot is unconsciously
moving the controls, he'll do that on the sim, too.

No he won't in the non full-motion sim, because he won't have that
"motion" that induces him to move the controls. As one example, the
feeling of falling backwards when leveling off from a climb. The sim
pilot is in steady one-G all the time.

I've been burned innumerable times throughout my life by posturing
airheads who claimed to be experts but weren't. I don't make that
mistake any more. Trust, but verify, as a politician once said. Or
better still, don't trust at all.

I'm fine with trust but verify, but don't use evidence of how the sim
works as evidence of how the real world works.

And while the whole "simming vs. reality" superiority argument is
subjective anyway, it is also simply silly. If you want to represent
yourself as an experienced pilot because you have thousands of hours on
simulated barons or boeing business jets, then great, have at it.

I don't think it's in the thousands, but I'm not sure.

It doesn't matter if its 1 or 1000.

Blueskies wrote:
"bdl" wrote in message :


Some sort of flashing light thing off in your peripheral vision, moving up and down slowly and out of phase with
simulated aircraft orientation. Maybe not a flashing light, just varying in intensity, maybe like one of those old
special effects you would see on the Twilight Zone, with the spiral line slowly turning....

I was thinking something more in line with random movements that had to
be corrected by the pilot. Very minor movements, but ones that would
force some concentration and cross-check. With head tracking software
you could randomly put the plane into small turns whenever the user
looks away from the 6-pack... Along with turbulence settings that
accelerate the deviations...

In reality though who would care? It still woulnd't be full motion and
it still wouldnt be reasonable simulation of the real environment. I'd
rather spend the time flying :-)

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 16:13:21 -0600, "Frank....H" wrote in
:


Don't knock the roundabouts just because Americans haven't figured out how
to use them.

Exactly. They're de rigueur in Europe, and I found the prospect of a
same-direction collision infinitely preferable to being broadsided at
right angles. But Mr. Honeck wouldn't know about that. :-)

As to lynching traffic engineers....First in line are the ones who have
forgotten about flashing yellows. I pass two intersections regularly where
they had to put up traffic lights for the rush (half) hour but never revert
to flashing yellow. Now instead of some people occasionally waiting during
the day _everybody_ waits most of the time.

And those who don't, contribute to the revenue stream created by
infraction citations. Follow the money ...

bdl writes:

Since you've never learned instrument flight (i.e. flown in real-world
IMC) how would you know?

Correction: I have learned instrument flight. It is true that I have
not flown in real-world IMC.

Rather an obtuse statement. So?

So it may not be accurate or appropriate to assume that others will
react as you have or would.

You don't know how you will react until you've done it.

I don't know for sure, but I do have a pretty good idea.

No he won't in the non full-motion sim, because he won't have that
"motion" that induces him to move the controls.

He'll still have the force of habit.

I'm fine with trust but verify, but don't use evidence of how the sim
works as evidence of how the real world works.

Why not? The sim is designed to mimic real life, and very often the
way the sim works is also the way the real world works.

It doesn't matter if its 1 or 1000.

It matters quite a bit.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
Strangely, no one has blamed the failed Bush Administration, or the war
in Iraq, for ANYTHING...yet.


That's because they're this:

------ -------

Self canceling.

Symbiotic:
2. Psychiatry. a relationship between two people in which each person is
dependent upon and receives reinforcement, whether beneficial or
detrimental, from the other.

It'll come...it *always* comes...

'07 ....D+2 g


Montblack-hawk-down ...(again)

bdl wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:


But that would not be like real life. If a pilot is unconsciously
moving the controls, he'll do that on the sim, too.



No he won't in the non full-motion sim, because he won't have that
"motion" that induces him to move the controls. As one example, the
feeling of falling backwards when leveling off from a climb. The sim
pilot is in steady one-G all the time.



I have been waiting for this opportunity!

You don't get "the leans" sitting in a chair playing MSFS!

As to lynching traffic engineers....First in line are the ones who have
forgotten about flashing yellows.

Amen. Our entire downtown area should be flashing yellow after 9 PM.

But I still think the new multitude of left-turn-only arrows are the
ultimate gas/time waster, at least around here. Apparently some
traffic engineer decided that we, as drivers, were no longer competent
at judging speed/time/distance in our heads, and thus could no longer
be trusted to safely turn left when the light is green.

So, every night, on my way home from the hotel, I sit at a stoplight
waiting for my little left turn arrow, while the light is green and
there is NO traffic coming toward me. The wait can be over a minute,
which doesn't sound like much -- but if you multiply the amount of
gas/time I've wasted there over the last four years, and then multiply
THAT times the number of other drivers that turn left at that
intersection, I'll bet we have wasted enough $$$ to keep the Iowa City
Airport funded for a year...

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Frank....H wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:



The most important thing is to =stay= in the roundabout until you
=know=, with sufficient lead time, where you get out.


No, the most important thing is for taxpayers (AKA: "Users") to lynch
traffic "engineers" who insist on foisting such silliness as
"roundabouts", "left turn only" arrows, and other "traffic calming
devices" on the rest of us.



snip

Don't knock the roundabouts just because Americans haven't figured out how
to use them. They are much more efficient for intersections where the
probability of traffic entering/leaving the intersection in any direction
is about equal. Since we don't actually stop at 4 way stops anyway this is
a much better system.....if we learn how to use it. Without the education
part we loose the benefit.

As to lynching traffic engineers....First in line are the ones who have
forgotten about flashing yellows. I pass two intersections regularly where
they had to put up traffic lights for the rush (half) hour but never revert
to flashing yellow. Now instead of some people occasionally waiting during
the day _everybody_ waits most of the time.


How to drive roundabouts... US style

http://www.dublin.oh.us/video/roundabout.php

How to drive roundabouts... US style

http://www.dublin.oh.us/video/roundabout.php

Phooey. That video doesn't show anything about how folks actually
drive in roundabouts.

It helps if you're in a Mustang Cobra convertible with Steppenwolf
cranked up high on a hot summer night -- but this maneuver can be done
at any time, in any vehicle. Approach the roundabout at as high (or
higher) a rate of speed as you may feel comfortable with -- but
certainly nothing less than 40 mph.

As you approach the roundabout, aim for the very center of the circular
(usually grassy) median. At the last possible moment, swerve hard
right to avoid hitting the curb. Again, it really helps if you're in a
low-slung sports car with sticky tires on dry pavement -- but I've seen
this done in all manner of vehicles.

Slew around to the right, and then sling the wheel back hard to the
left, so as to not hit the opposite curb. You are now in a 2-G left
turn, so downshift and punch the throttle to allow the rear end to
break loose, putting your vehicle in a perfect power slide around the
roundabout. If you're really good, you can go almost all the way
around the roundabout in this manner.

This is great fun, and can be repeated daily. This maneuver worked
well with the chicanes, too.

"Safer". Bah.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"