General Zinni on Sixty Minutes

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/4/04 8:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 04 Jun 2004 14:02:04 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


What military service?
.
Arthur Kramer

Art, you of all people should respect someone who earned a commission
in the USAF and completed AF pilot training, then went on to
operationally qualify in a single-seat/single-engine fighter and fly
it for four and a half years.

Did you serve that long?

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

'

Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of 50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes


Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of
50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in
Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Is your own record the benchmark? If so the vast majority, including Al
Gore, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, etc. would not qualify.

President Bush fulfilled his duty. He is currently serving in one of the
most dangerous jobs around. Your mudslinging doesn't change that.

Jarg

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: "Jarg"
Date: 6/4/04 10:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes


Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of
50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in
Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Is your own record the benchmark? If so the vast majority, including Al
Gore, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, etc. would not qualify.

President Bush fulfilled his duty. He is currently serving in one of the
most dangerous jobs around. Your mudslinging doesn't change that.

Jarg









Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: "Jarg"
Date: 6/4/04 10:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes


Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of
50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in
Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Is your own record the benchmark? If so the vast majority, including Al
Gore, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, etc. would not qualify.

President Bush fulfilled his duty. He is currently serving in one of the
most dangerous jobs around. Your mudslinging doesn't change that.

Jarg


Once more, mea culpa mea culpa. I guess I am just not as good an American as a
guy who fialed to show up when it was required of him. I thought you got 20
years at hard labor forthat sort of stuff. One more point. Kerry went to war.
Bush hid in Texas.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 04 Jun 2004 16:48:14 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/4/04 8:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time

On 04 Jun 2004 14:02:04 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

What military service?
.
Arthur Kramer

Art, you of all people should respect someone who earned a commission
in the USAF and completed AF pilot training, then went on to
operationally qualify in a single-seat/single-engine fighter and fly
it for four and a half years.

Did you serve that long?

Ed Rasimus

Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of 50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer

No, Art, you shouldn't be ashamed for your service. You are
justifiably proud. But, you should be at least a bit sheepish for
continually repeating an assertion that has no merit.

George Bush served in the TANG. He spent many years (my point was that
his length of service was at least equal if not longer than yours.) He
did make a choice, but his choice to take a commission, go to pilot
training and fly a fighter might be arguably superior to folks like Al
Gore, who despite his college education and leadership capabilities
chose to serve as a private admin clerk and spend less than half of
the required combat tour in-country. Or John Kerry who chose to demean
and insult his fellow warriors calling them traitors, war criminals,
rapists and murderers.

Bush "showed" for a year of pilot training, several months of various
survival schools, almost a year of F-102 qualification and a couple of
years of operational alert. His eight months in Alabama after all of
that service is the time in question and there are still the facts
that the organization he was attached to was in transition from an
aircraft he did not fly to another aircraft he was not qualified in.
It was a simple administrative posting of an ANG officer. Duty
requirements were minimal and that was exactly the reason he had
requested the posting.

Bush flew an airplane that could have killed him on any given day. He
could not have known the future when he started, but at that time the
F-102 was in Vietnam and it was flown predominantly by ANG pilots. By
the time he was qualified in the system that was no longer the case.
And, as previously mentioned ANG pilots don't get to pick and choose
between systems. The fly what their state owns.

You can have whatever political opinions you want, but you have to
stop ignoring the facts and making these groundless assertions.
Respect others as you wish to have them respect you. Different people
serve in different ways and for different reasons.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

What military service?


Bush served in the Texas ANG.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Once more, mea culpa mea culpa. I guess I am just not as good an
American as a guy who fialed to show up when it was required of him.
I thought you got 20 years at hard labor forthat sort of stuff.


If he hadn't shown up for duty you can be sure he'd have paid the penalty.



One more point. Kerry went to war.


Any idea why he declined to serve his full tour?



Bush hid in Texas.


Bush's location was known. He could have been sent to Vietnam at any time.
How do you feel about Bill Clinton? He went to England without telling his
draft board.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

George Bush served in the TANG. He spent many years (my point was that
his length of service was at least equal if not longer than yours.) He
did make a choice, but his choice to take a commission, go to pilot
training and fly a fighter might be arguably superior to folks like Al
Gore, who despite his college education and leadership capabilities
chose to serve as a private admin clerk and spend less than half of
the required combat tour in-country. Or John Kerry who chose to demean
and insult his fellow warriors calling them traitors, war criminals,
rapists and murderers.


And also served less than half of his combat tour.



You can have whatever political opinions you want, but you have to
stop ignoring the facts and making these groundless assertions.


That's not possible. One cannot hold the political opinions that Art holds
unless one ignores the facts.

In article ,
"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

In message , Chad Irby
writes
In article ,
"Paul J. Adam" wrote:
How many shells do you think have been used as IEDs? It's not 'dozens'.

Nope. Pretty close to that. Most of them have been explosives of other
types.

How many IEDs do you think have been detonated or disarmed?

Quite a few, but most of them have been made out of much smaller devices
or just plain old plastic explosives.

It takes a lot of work and more skill to make an artillery shell into a
remote-detonated bomb, compared to using the other materials they have
available. Making an RPG into an IED is much, much easier (a piece of
string tied to the trigger), and they have a *lot* of those.

An "IED" isn't always made up of normal explosives, anyway. Cans full
of gasoline, a grenade tied to the gas tank of a bus sitting by the side
of the road, fertilizer and diesel in a plastic bag... there's a lot of
different ways to make them. Artillery shells are popular, but with all
of the explosive crap sitting around in undiscovered bunkers in Iraq,
there's a wide variety to choose from.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
(ArtKramr) wrote:

Once more, mea culpa mea culpa. I guess I am just not as good an
American as a guy who fialed to show up when it was required of him.

Except, of course, he did, by the records, despite the frantic efforts
of some to pretend otherwise.

Meanwhile, he's been in a job for the last three years which has a
*very* high mortality rate, after serving in a plane in the National
Guard which had a mortality rate *in training* about equal to combat
flying.

Since you're claiming that this guy isn't brave, and that he didn't do
his duty, you're nowhere near as good an American as you thought.

Sorry, but you brought it up.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

On 04 Jun 2004 16:48:14 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/4/04 8:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 04 Jun 2004 14:02:04 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


What military service?
.
Arthur Kramer

Art, you of all people should respect someone who earned a commission
in the USAF and completed AF pilot training, then went on to
operationally qualify in a single-seat/single-engine fighter and fly
it for four and a half years.

Did you serve that long?

Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of 50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.

I cannot *wait* until your rotten horse**** no longer appears in
this group, Kramer. Do you understand? I long for the day when
you're gone.

No bull****.


Billy

http://www.two--four.net/weblog.php