General Zinni on Sixty Minutes

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: "Jarg"
Date: 6/4/04 10:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes


Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record
of
50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in
Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Is your own record the benchmark? If so the vast majority, including Al
Gore, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, etc. would not qualify.

President Bush fulfilled his duty. He is currently serving in one of the
most dangerous jobs around. Your mudslinging doesn't change that.

Jarg









Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: "Jarg"
Date: 6/4/04 10:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes



Once more, mea culpa mea culpa. I guess I am just not as good an American
as a
guy who fialed to show up when it was required of him. I thought you got
20
years at hard labor forthat sort of stuff. One more point. Kerry went to
war.
Bush hid in Texas.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Your willingness to apologize is a good start, now let's see if we can get
you focused on doing so for the right reasons.

Please cite a reputable source showing President Bush "hid" in Texas and
that he did not fulfil his service requirements. I can cite plenty that
detail his service and convincingly counter the lies of his politically
motivated oppoents (like yourself).

Jarg

p.s I don't think anyone is questioning your service which makes me wonder
why you are compelled to repeatedly remind us of it. I hope you don't think
it will somehow counterbalance your sloppy thinking!

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Chad Irby
Date: 6/4/04 11:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Since you're claiming that this guy isn't brave, and that he didn't do
his duty, you're nowhere near as good an American as you thought.

Sorry, but you brought it up.

--

Yeah. Thats what I said.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Billy Beck
Date: 6/4/04 11:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


On 04 Jun 2004 16:48:14 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/4/04 8:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 04 Jun 2004 14:02:04 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


What military service?
.
Arthur Kramer

Art, you of all people should respect someone who earned a commission
in the USAF and completed AF pilot training, then went on to
operationally qualify in a single-seat/single-engine fighter and fly
it for four and a half years.

Did you serve that long?

Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of
50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.

I cannot *wait* until your rotten horse**** no longer appears in
this group, Kramer. Do you understand? I long for the day when
you're gone.

No bull****.

I'm very old. You won't have long to wait. Take joy in that fact.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Ed Rasimus
confessed the following:

Art, you of all people should respect someone who earned a commission
in the USAF and completed AF pilot training, then went on to
operationally qualify in a single-seat/single-engine fighter and fly
it for four and a half years.

Minor point of order...gwb graduated from UPT in Nov 1969 (IIRC),
qualified in the 102 in July 1970 and his last flight in a single
engine/single seat fighter was April 1972. He never flew the F-102
again.

My poor math skills indicate that he was operational for less than two
years, of course your math may come up with a different answer.
Perhaps he got bored with it.

Robey

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Robey Price
Date: 6/4/04 12:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Ed Rasimus
confessed the following:

Art, you of all people should respect someone who earned a commission
in the USAF and completed AF pilot training, then went on to
operationally qualify in a single-seat/single-engine fighter and fly
it for four and a half years.

Minor point of order...gwb graduated from UPT in Nov 1969 (IIRC),
qualified in the 102 in July 1970 and his last flight in a single
engine/single seat fighter was April 1972. He never flew the F-102
again.

My poor math skills indicate that he was operational for less than two
years, of course your math may come up with a different answer.
Perhaps he got bored with it.

Robey



Time in service isn't an indicition of much of anything. I know guys who spent
20 years in and spent it all behind a desk in Ohio. A guy with 10 minutes on
Omaha Beach outranks him no matter what the rank. It's not the time it's the
action.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 04 Jun 2004 19:07:44 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

From: Billy Beck

On 04 Jun 2004 16:48:14 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

From: Ed Rasimus

What military service?

Art, you of all people should respect someone who earned a commission
in the USAF and completed AF pilot training, then went on to
operationally qualify in a single-seat/single-engine fighter and fly
it for four and a half years.

Did you serve that long?

Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record of
50 missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in
Texas while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.

I cannot *wait* until your rotten horse**** no longer appears in
this group, Kramer. Do you understand? I long for the day when
you're gone.

No bull****.

I'm very old. You won't have long to wait. Take joy in that fact.

No, I won't, and certainly not on *your* word. And it doesn't
have to come to that. It would suit my purposes if you only came to
your senses, but I know better than to wait for that. At this point,
I'd be satisfied to know that you'd taken up potting geraniums and
didn't have time for what you do around here.

Let me tell you something: your suvival of your ordeal was once a
big fat credit in my books, but you've long since traded that account
to a flat zero. You did it with your utterly ridiculous
pronouncements, *explicitly trading* on the credit of your experience,
as if that entitled you to strut what you think are you politics here.
The whole while -- and most amply illustrated in the latest round with
Ed -- you've been pleased to deliberately ignore *facts*, and, whether
you know it or not, that is the very essence of depravity.

It's been said that "Man is the only creature that can sink below
its nature."

You're living proof, right here in this newsgroup.

Nothing about it is "joy[ful]" to me, but I hold higher values
than that.


Billy

http://www.two--four.net/weblog.php

In article ,
(ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Chad Irby
Date: 6/4/04 11:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Since you're claiming that this guy isn't brave, and that he didn't do
his duty, you're nowhere near as good an American as you thought.

Sorry, but you brought it up.

Yeah. Thats what I said.

....except that your previous attempts at sarcasm failed, because you
were wrong about the particulars.

You pretty much just threw away your entire WWII record, all in a failed
try at making someone else with a not-as-good record look bad.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In message , Chad Irby
writes
In article ,
"Paul J. Adam" wrote:
How many IEDs do you think have been detonated or disarmed?

Quite a few, but most of them have been made out of much smaller devices
or just plain old plastic explosives.

It takes a lot of work and more skill to make an artillery shell into a
remote-detonated bomb, compared to using the other materials they have
available.

How difficult do you believe it is to fill the fusewell of an artillery
shell with plastic explosive and insert a detonator linked to (for
example) a garage door-opener receiver?

Making an RPG into an IED is much, much easier (a piece of
string tied to the trigger), and they have a *lot* of those.

However, an RPG's warhead is measured in ounces and has a relatively
poor fragmentation effect: artillery shells have payloads of pounds and
are *designed* for area fragmentation.

An "IED" isn't always made up of normal explosives, anyway. Cans full
of gasoline, a grenade tied to the gas tank of a bus sitting by the side
of the road, fertilizer and diesel in a plastic bag... there's a lot of
different ways to make them.

Yes, I know - they were an ongoing risk.

Interesting experience: checking out a white van parked on double yellow
lines (illegally, if there's no direct US equivalent) but a look through
the windows shows it's full of fertiliser bags.

Glad I was just the guard that day: and *very* glad that the driver ran
out of a house, saw the armed soldiers examining his van (probably not
in that order), and stuttered "I'll move it! I'm going!" and raced off.

Artillery shells are popular, but with all
of the explosive crap sitting around in undiscovered bunkers in Iraq,
there's a wide variety to choose from.

So, again, what's your estimate of the number of IEDs found to date?

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

Once more, Art shows why an all-volunteer force is superior to a draft . . .

Steve Swartz



"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: "Jarg"
Date: 6/4/04 10:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes


Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record
of
50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in
Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Is your own record the benchmark? If so the vast majority, including Al
Gore, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, etc. would not qualify.

President Bush fulfilled his duty. He is currently serving in one of the
most dangerous jobs around. Your mudslinging doesn't change that.

Jarg









Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: "Jarg"
Date: 6/4/04 10:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes


Yeah you are right. I am ashamed of myself with my measly combat record
of
50
missions over Germany being no match for the no-show Bush who hid in
Texas
while the Nam war war raged. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Is your own record the benchmark? If so the vast majority, including Al
Gore, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, etc. would not qualify.

President Bush fulfilled his duty. He is currently serving in one of the
most dangerous jobs around. Your mudslinging doesn't change that.

Jarg


Once more, mea culpa mea culpa. I guess I am just not as good an American
as a
guy who fialed to show up when it was required of him. I thought you got
20
years at hard labor forthat sort of stuff. One more point. Kerry went to
war.
Bush hid in Texas.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

It's amazing how so many WWII vets risked life and limb to save the French
from Totalitarianism, then scurry back to the U.S. and try to ram it down
our throats . . .

Art, for one, is a "Big Government Liberal" who doesn't seem to realize that
yes, Totalitarianism is a necessary condition to support his Welfare State.
And his welfare checks.

Perhaps his generation has been trained to expect that the world now owes
them a debt of servitude err I mean gratitude . . .

Steve Swartz



"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Once more, mea culpa mea culpa. I guess I am just not as good an
American as a guy who fialed to show up when it was required of him.
I thought you got 20 years at hard labor forthat sort of stuff.


If he hadn't shown up for duty you can be sure he'd have paid the penalty.



One more point. Kerry went to war.


Any idea why he declined to serve his full tour?



Bush hid in Texas.


Bush's location was known. He could have been sent to Vietnam at any
time.
How do you feel about Bill Clinton? He went to England without telling
his
draft board.