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#21
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Flying through Canadian airspace
"Denny" wrote in message ups.com... BTW, I was on the phone to FSS yesterday about todays weather... Dunno if it has changed into private hands or if the federal employees there can feel change breathing down their necks, but I gotta tell ya the briefer was so accomodating and over friendly I wondered if they thought I was somebody in a position of power... denny Didn't the "Welcome to the Lockheed Martin ........ phone greeting tip you off? It went private months ago. Allen |
#22
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Flying through Canadian airspace
Didn't the "Welcome to the Lockheed Martin ........ phone greeting tip
you off? It went private months ago. ************************************************** ************************************* Ahhh haaa, I thought something was different, like the government was getting a sense of humor or something... I live in my own little world and externals don't intrude much... Actually, the instant that Lansing center picks up with a click I automatically hit #1, and don't hear the greeting... The other thing is that the past few years I have been on a kick of avoiding Big Brother as much as possible... Only filing IFR when forced to... Otherwise, just getting my own weather and going off on my own without talking to ATC.. This trip I will save a half hour of fuel each way and get the scenic ride across the Lake by filing a flight plan instead of going West of Detroit to avoid Canada., so it's worth the effort of asking big brother for permission... Anyway, just filed for the trip VFR... Briefer seemed happy, presumeably the radar operator at center will be happy because there will be a squawk next to my blip, so HSA will happy, the military will be happy, and presumeably the NSA is happy with my phone calling patterns... A win-win all around... denny |
#23
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Flying through Canadian airspace
"Denny" wrote in message ups.com... Didn't the "Welcome to the Lockheed Martin ........ phone greeting tip you off? It went private months ago. ************************************************** ************************************* Ahhh haaa, I thought something was different, like the government was getting a sense of humor or something... I live in my own little world and externals don't intrude much... Actually, the instant that Lansing center picks up with a click I automatically hit #1, and don't hear the greeting... The other thing is that the past few years I have been on a kick of avoiding Big Brother as much as possible... Only filing IFR when forced to... Otherwise, just getting my own weather and going off on my own without talking to ATC.. This trip I will save a half hour of fuel each way and get the scenic ride across the Lake by filing a flight plan instead of going West of Detroit to avoid Canada., so it's worth the effort of asking big brother for permission... Anyway, just filed for the trip VFR... Briefer seemed happy, presumeably the radar operator at center will be happy because there will be a squawk next to my blip, so HSA will happy, the military will be happy, and presumeably the NSA is happy with my phone calling patterns... A win-win all around... denny I am with you. I live in an area where there are frequent TFR's. I use DUATs for the initial check and then call FSS if I need to file. (I still don't trust filing with DUATs, had too many flight plans lost.) Allen |
#24
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Flying through Canadian airspace
Allen wrote:
...call FSS if I need to file. (I still don't trust filing with DUATs, had too many flight plans lost.) My experience is _exactly_ the opposite. |
#25
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Flying through Canadian airspace
"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1148484464.58605@sj-nntpcache-5... Allen wrote: ...call FSS if I need to file. (I still don't trust filing with DUATs, had too many flight plans lost.) My experience is _exactly_ the opposite. You've had too many flight plans not lost? |
#26
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Flying through Canadian airspace
"Dave Butler" wrote in message news:1148484464.58605@sj-nntpcache-5... Allen wrote: ...call FSS if I need to file. (I still don't trust filing with DUATs, had too many flight plans lost.) My experience is _exactly_ the opposite. My distrust comes from using the system early on. It appears I need to try it again. Thanks for the reply! Allen |
#27
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Flying through Canadian airspace
Wow, and double WoW! Never before, have I heard of an airliner taking the
time to do some sightseeing! Years ago, I was coming back to Minnesota from the L.A. area in California, flying on Northwest. The pilot came on the PA and said that since it was such a clear morning, they got permission to divert slightly so we could see the Grand Canyon. We didn't do any 360's, but they did slow down and bank right and left so everyone could get a look. This was also the same flight that the pilot would keep us up to date with the Vikings (football) score.... Don't know if that would occur now days or not.... Randy |
#28
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Flying through Canadian airspace
Well, we did the flight from Saginaw to Cleveland and back... As
promised I did file VFR and I will never, never, never, pinch me, n e v e r, do that again... What a ghastly experience... And this is from a fella who has been flying the ATC system for over 40 years - but hasn't filed a VFR flight plan within that time frame (that I can remember).. Anyway, Out on the ramp I phoned and got the Lansing FSS... Rattled off the usual flight plan info... Waited for the usual CRAFT response and then gotcha #1 rose up... (I should have known right then!) She didn't read back the plan!!! "OK, it's filed... Hayuv a nice day.", she chirped... Slight pause on my part (the deer in the headlights look, my son, DL, later dryly mentioned) as I was well into the role of mentor and smoothly showing my son how it is done by a pro I thought .... "Uhhh, I didn't get a squawk." "Oh, I can't give you a squawk, ATC will assign that when you open your flight plan." Well, OK I can live with that, and I know where I'm going, I hope she remembered... So we saddled up and turned lose those thumpin 150 HP engines on Fat Albert... Airborne I coach DL through the mechanics of contacting the nearest ATC and asking for the flight plan to be opened... Gotcha #2 grins at us... Saginaw approach says they "don't" open VFR flight plans... (Note, they didn't say can't, just don't - can you spell 'controllers union versus the privatized FSS'?) "You will have to talk to FSS.", click and silence... Well, OK Martha Jane, I DO know how to talk to FSS... So we dial up FSS and after a few calls get the nice lady... "Oh, your flight plan is opened."... So, back to Mr. Wonderful at Saginaw Approach... highly condensed "57 Pop is back with you and the VFR flight plan to Cleveland is opened." "OK, I can give you flight followingheh, heh, heh Squawk 'snookered', maintain 3500, blah, blah, blah...".... picture me with sour expression So, a few miles later we get told, "Leaving my airspace, radar services terminated, squawk VFR.. You may be able to contact Flint." click... silence... Wearily I call Flint Approach... "Who are you, where are you, how high are you (by now I wish)... And while he didn't say, why are you bothering me, the attitude was there... The instant you say VFR flight plan, the temperature in the voice drops 10 degrees... The Coupe De Grass came on the return leg North lots of grubby details condensed After Cleveland Approach pinged me to FSS and they ponged me back, Cleveland finally, grudgingly, gave me a squawk,then waited until I just touched Canadian Airspace and with a gloat in the voice says: drum roll you all know what's coming "Leaving my airspace, return to VFR, have a nice day.", click! At that point I became annoyed and bluntly told ATC, "Wait a minute Jack... I am in international airspace and you don't just dump me." "Well, you can try contacting Detroit." Knowing full well that I am out of range for Detroit So, we spent the next 15+ miles calling Detroit... When I finally reached them it was the three stooges who-what-why-go away routine all over... This morning I called the Great Lakes FSDO and spoke to an OPS specialist... At first she gave me the party line... "tsk, tsk, I don't know how that could happen, after all a VFR flight plan and flight following are different programs." After a bit she warmed up and finally told me, "Well Lockheed Martin took over FSS and everything is changing and we don't know what ATC is doing or why." So, there you have it folks... File VFR and you become a scab walking into the middle of a sit down strike... Beats me... I have been banging around airports for over 60 years and flying the ATC system for over 40 years, and I don't have a clue what to do... denny |
#29
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Flying through Canadian airspace
Denny wrote:
Well, we did the flight from Saginaw to Cleveland and back... As promised I did file VFR and I will never, never, never, pinch me, n e v e r, do that again... What a ghastly experience... And this is from a fella who has been flying the ATC system for over 40 years - but hasn't filed a VFR flight plan within that time frame (that I can remember).. snip Thanks, Denny amusing story, and I feel your pain. I too seldom fly VFR, and almost never file/activate a VFR flight plan. When I do, I am usually reminded of why I don't do it more often. I think your expectations are too high. ATC neither knows nor cares whether you have filed a VFR flight plan. VFR flight plans never leave the domain of FSS. They just sit there and wait for you to forget to close/cancel them, then SAR is launched. That's really all they're good for. Anyway, thanks again for a good read. Dave |
#30
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Flying through Canadian airspace
Denny wrote
So, there you have it folks... File VFR and you become a scab walking into the middle of a sit down strike... Beats me... I have been banging around airports for over 60 years and flying the ATC system for over 40 years, and I don't have a clue what to do... NOPE! Denny, you just don't understand what a VFR flight plan is for, nor the common method for filing and opening one. They are filed direct with a FSS over the telephone and opened by calling a FSS, either direct or via the nearest VOR station. ATC doesn't get involved at all. Yes, there are other ways of doing this, but why not do it the in the expected manner. Flight following (RADAR advisories) is an ATC function only and does not depend on having a VFR flight plan filed nor opened. Sounds as if you need to spend some time in the AIM. Bob Moore |
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