World Class: Recent Great News

Ben - winter getting to you dear Boy......


Of course we could make the World Class the competition that hotshots
want to fly.

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Make the International winner $100,000 richer and I suspect you wont
have any complaints from top guns wanting to earn a bit of extra coin
:-)

Who gives a toss about what they look like, topguns will then say its
the $100K they will earn that will make them want to compete.

BMW owners will always look down their noses at Hyundai owners........




Ben Flewett wrote in message ...
All valid points but....

You get what you pay for and nobody wants to buy a
PW5 because they are overpriced rubbish. That is why
the World Class concept has failed in it's current
format.

I am a great fan of the World Class concept and will
happily sell my D2 and buy a World Class glider. But
I am not spending $20,000 on a glider that goes no
better than the $4000 K6 I owned when I was an 18 year
old student - especially as it would mean I couldn't
fly against a large number of top pilots as I can in
the D2.




At 20:54 09 March 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
I'm not a big fan of a flying sperm cell either, but
you can forget
that Discus or LS4 will ever become a world class.
One of the major
requirement for that class is: can you produce NEW,
laminate, low cost
glider that will be widely accessible to everyone that
wants to fly?
NOT, can you buy a 30 year old LS3 at the similar price
or if you can
buy new Discus for $70,000, making gliding even less
accessible for
regular folk. Now take a wild guess dont you see any
LS4, or Discus in
majority, if not all American clubs? Is it because
Pewee is better? Or
is it because Pewee is cheaper to aquire and operate?
If that wasn't
the requirement Poles would probably propose Jantar.

"Ben Flewett" wrote in message
...
All valid points but....

You get what you pay for and nobody wants to buy a
PW5 because they are overpriced rubbish. That is why
the World Class concept has failed in it's current
format.


I am biased as a PW-5 owner but am at a complete loss to understand why so
much vitriol is hurled at the design. Everyone makes their choices and pays
their money and that is fine. It would just never occur to me to denigrate
all the designs I did not choose and believe me they all have their
drawbacks.

I could say:

I would never buy a motorglider. You pay all that money and get an
unreliable smoky engine where the new prop bearings may seize and that
sounds like a lawnmower and that can't fly with any kind of reasonably low
wingloading. Also you don't deserve any records you set or contests you win
because of the motor advantage.

I wouldn't buy any of those modern, expensive German gliders. They are
finished with junk that is easy to apply and smooth but that disintegrates
in a few years requiring a refinishing that cost as much as a used glider.
This is not to mention the spar shrinkage that may happen in just a year or
so of southwest US heat. Then of course I will have to replace it in 5
years to stay competitive.

I wouldn't buy any cheap Eastern European open class glider. How would you
ever find the help to do that heavy rigging and it is not competitive in any
class except maybe Sports.

I wouldn't buy any 2nd or 3rd generation back 15 meter or standard class
ship. What classes are they competitive in now? Either none or maybe
Sports Class if you are lucky. Yeh, I guess you can fly with your buddies
if that interests you. Hard to get better if you are trying to fly with,
instead of faster, than your buddies.

I could say all that and parts of it would be true. Why would I want to?
I'm not offended when people make other choices, I just enjoy the beauty and
technology of the gliders they purchase.

So there you have it. The 1-26 was and is a successful one-design class, in
the US only. The low performance can be a disadvantage in some areas and it
can not use a compact trailer. The PW-5 has the advantage of more modern
materials and more performance and of being an international class. The big
idea is it is a one-design class, not that it should compete with the LS-4.
A side advantage is that it is inexpensive. What new glider is cheaper?
Not fair to compare to used gliders. It is far from being the prettiest
glider out there and I sure do appreciate the beauty of an ASW-28, but I can
live with that for the advantages it does have. The class hasn't grown as
fast as hoped, but it seems to be doing about as well as Open Class (or
Standard last year) and I don't hear a lot of uproar again that class.

My B1 model has a polyurethane finish that I expect to last for a long long
time. It has automatic hookups. It seems as well built as any recent
German glider I have seen. It does not have any indication of spar
shrinkage, after some hot summers. It is extremely easy to handle on the
ground and to rig and derig. It is and will remain, as long as the class
endures, a cutting edge glider in the World Class and, at least for now,
Sports Class, all without messing with the considerable hassles of water
ballast. This means I don't have to replace it every few years.

I am very happy with the glider and hope everyone else is happy with their
choices.

Larry Pardue 2I

Shaking in my boots about competing against John Byrd on an EQUAL BASIS this
summer.

Shaking in my boots about competing against John Byrd on an EQUAL BASIS this
summer.

Judging by recent levels of World Class participation, you may even
get to compete against him one-on-one!

Taking that argument to it's logical conclusion we
should nominate a hang-glider as the new World Class
glider.

The World Class was never supposed to be an entry level
glider - it was supposed to be a glider that anyone
and everyone could and WOULD want to compete in. The
idea was to have a GLIDER we could all compete in -
not a paper dart.

And what is the point of retracting the undercarridge
on a Russia?


At 00:54 10 March 2004, Mark James Boyd wrote:
I for one am grateful for the World Class idea.
I'm glad IGC didn't kill it. It's nice to have
a very 'entry level' competition class/records.

I'd like to see a different glider, perhaps the
AC-4 or Sparrowhawk (or variant), maybe as the
next 'entry level' World Class glider.

I flew the Russia retract Saturday. I liked it.

In article ,
Charles Yeates wrote:
With Spring and a new season arriving, here are some
absolutely GREAT news
for the World Class:
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Ben Flewett wrote:

Taking that argument to it's logical conclusion we
should nominate a hang-glider as the new World Class
glider.

The World Class was never supposed to be an entry level
glider - it was supposed to be a glider that anyone
and everyone could and WOULD want to compete in. The
idea was to have a GLIDER we could all compete in -
not a paper dart.

Some revisionist history going on he I was on SSA Board of Directors
when the World Class was proposed, and these NEVER were the goals. NO
ONE, at the time, espoused the idea that everyone, or even a large
minority, would want to fly the World Class Glider.
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

So what are the alternatives to replace a Pw-5? NEW of course...

Alternative to the the world class - the club class of course. The UK nationals
this year have at least 3 ex world champions competing. They are over
subscribed with a large waiting list. What other class, including the world
class, can you compete in at the highest level for so little. A typical
competative glider such as a 201 Libelle, ASW19 or DG 101can be bought for 12k
to 15k UKP complete with chute, instruments etc
The same level of interest is evident in all parts of the world except the USA

In article ,
Eric Greenwell wrote:
Ben Flewett wrote:

Taking that argument to it's logical conclusion we
should nominate a hang-glider as the new World Class
glider.

The World Class was never supposed to be an entry level
glider - it was supposed to be a glider that anyone
and everyone could and WOULD want to compete in. The
idea was to have a GLIDER we could all compete in -
not a paper dart.

Some revisionist history going on he I was on SSA Board of Directors
when the World Class was proposed, and these NEVER were the goals. NO
ONE, at the time, espoused the idea that everyone, or even a large
minority, would want to fly the World Class Glider.
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA


Perhaps the goals included a glider which, like the
505 dinghy, could be (relatively) cheaply acquired and
sailed competitively by sailors of all levels
(especially entry-level) as opposed to an America's Cup
racer...

--

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Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

With the demise and DG's aquisition of LS perhaps Herr Weber could be
persuaded to donate the LS4 manufacturing rights to the IGC. He has already
stated that the LS4 will not be part of the ongoing stable at DG. When an
existing design was suggested at the time of the design competition there
was opposition because those already owning the type would be at some
advantage. This would now be offset by the fact that the owners of LS4 are
currently in an aircraft 'without a manufacturer', surely this affects
peoples decisions to buy used LS4's.

Could LS4's be produced to a world class price? I doubt it but they might
come close if produced in China and Eastern Europe. Perhaps supplied
unpainted or almost ready to fly. Instruments not fitted etc.

The one design idea is supported by almost everyone who comments on the WC
subject. The price does not actually appear to be the right selection tool!
Almost everyone wants an honest 1:40 cross country capable class. The LS4
could deliver that in a very capable manner.

Ian
( Not an LS4 owner - but I used to be and loved the ship! )

"tango4" wrote:

With the demise and DG's aquisition of LS perhaps Herr Weber could be
persuaded to donate the LS4 manufacturing rights to the IGC.

Could LS4's be produced to a world class price? I doubt it but they might
come close if produced in China and Eastern Europe. Perhaps supplied
unpainted or almost ready to fly. Instruments not fitted etc.

That's a very interesting idea, if Herr Weber would be so generous we
would all have to be grateful to him for a long time.
And I think it would open a huge market for DG, in the sale of spare
parts. If the "World LS4 Class" is to be successful, a relevant
minority of pilots might prefer parts coming from a certified and
long-established manufacturer.

Aldo Cernezzi