Another of those unreliable AC engines stalled on approach

Well... it's like this... The story was told to me one day back around 1980,
after the operational techniques had suddenly changed--and become much more
conservative. I just checked FAA's accident database for Hollywood, FL for
the period from 1970 through 1990 and found no refference to any similar
accident. At this point, I can only presume that someone was "yanking my
chain" and I made the mistake of repeating the story without checking it
out, even though such stories are now quite easy to verify.

Peter
Sorry about the incorrect report.


"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
news:1Mmih.895$_X.3@bigfe9...
No, at North Perry (HWO)

Peter

"Frank Barchi" wrote in message
. net...
Was that accident at FXE?

Frank

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com...

Montblack wrote:
("Judah" wrote)
On the other hand, if the Pilot stalled the aircraft (either with
or
without engine power) by not properly managing the airspeed
across
his
wings (for example by climbing too aggressively), the plane may
lose
its
lift (aka stall), and drop its nose somewhat suddenly.


One year at OSH, hanging out at the Ultra-Light pasture, I heard
the
field
announcer put a stop to pilots trying to outdo one another with
over
aggressive climbouts. He was pretty stern with his warning.


Montblack

Eight or 10 years ago at Arlington a fella killed himself that
way.
I watched it happen. Short takeoff and steep climb to about 200',
then
a fairly steep turn to return to the runway to demonstrate the
short-field capability of the airplane (an advanced ultralight). He
did
it several times until it finally bit him. The airplane went left
wing/nose down and rotated into the ground. Classic stall/spin
scenario.
Too many ultralight pilots get too little training and do too
little reading on their own. And, like the rest of us males, they
hate
to be outdone and might push things farther and farther until one of
them dies and the media have more junk to feed to the masses. I can
understand the "stern" warning. That field announcer might have
witnessed the same accident I did.

Dan

About 25+ years ago at one of our local airports, in southeastern
Florida,
the rag draggers used to make a very short takeoff at roughtly
mid-field,
level off at around 50 feet, and make a very steep turn to transition
across
the airport to their pick-up area. One had a mishap, and after that
the
operation was much more conservative. I never heard the details or
extent
of damage, but suspect that the apparent headwind may have only been a
long
gust.

Peter

wrote in message
oups.com...

Montblack wrote:
("Judah" wrote)
On the other hand, if the Pilot stalled the aircraft (either with or
without engine power) by not properly managing the airspeed across his
wings (for example by climbing too aggressively), the plane may lose
its
lift (aka stall), and drop its nose somewhat suddenly.


One year at OSH, hanging out at the Ultra-Light pasture, I heard the
field
announcer put a stop to pilots trying to outdo one another with over
aggressive climbouts. He was pretty stern with his warning.


Montblack

Eight or 10 years ago at Arlington a fella killed himself that way.
I watched it happen. Short takeoff and steep climb to about 200', then
a fairly steep turn to return to the runway to demonstrate the
short-field capability of the airplane (an advanced ultralight). He did
it several times until it finally bit him. The airplane went left
wing/nose down and rotated into the ground. Classic stall/spin
scenario.

The theory about that accident in the RV community is that the pilot had
used the seatbelt on the passenger's side as a control lock, was in a rush
to leave the show, and didn't do a control check before takeoff. With the
belt latched, the elevator was in an "up" configuration, and the rest,
unfortunately, is history.

KB

snip

Dan

Kyle Boatright wrote:
What are the odds that the pilot stalled the aircraft and the engine was
performing just fine? Writers often miss the fact that the word "stalled"
has an additional meaning in the aviation realm.

I sometimes think the aviation community should come up with an
alternative description for a wing "stall", so that the layman doesn't
confuse it with engines. Anyone care to propose a nice short
descriptive phrase?

Of course, it's going to be impossible to impose. Sort of like the
attempt to change from "uncontrolled airports" to "nontowered airports"
:-)

Kev

"Kev" wrote in message
ps.com...

Kyle Boatright wrote:
What are the odds that the pilot stalled the aircraft and the engine was
performing just fine? Writers often miss the fact that the word
"stalled"
has an additional meaning in the aviation realm.

I sometimes think the aviation community should come up with an
alternative description for a wing "stall", so that the layman doesn't
confuse it with engines. Anyone care to propose a nice short
descriptive phrase?

Of course, it's going to be impossible to impose. Sort of like the
attempt to change from "uncontrolled airports" to "nontowered airports"
:-)

Kev

Actually, I believe the new buzz phrase is "Pilot Controlled Field."

At least that's what was used in multiple seminars at this past AOPA Expo.

Jay B

Jay Beckman writes:

Actually, I believe the new buzz phrase is "Pilot Controlled Field."

That implies that pilots are not in control at other fields, which is
just as bad (if not worse) than implying that a field is out of
control.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

It is equally likely that aviators reading the article will make snap
judgements about what the journalist did or did not know or
understand, and will imagine their own version of the story that may
be dramatically different from what was reported.

Both are just stories...

Accurate facts will be listed in the NTSB report.

"Kev" wrote in
ps.com:

I sometimes think the aviation community should come up with an
alternative description for a wing "stall", so that the layman doesn't
confuse it with engines. Anyone care to propose a nice short
descriptive phrase?

Why should we have to change our use of the term? I think the new term for an
engine stall should be an engine shutdown, and stall should relate only to
loss of lift over a wing or other airfoil.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Jay Beckman writes:
Actually, I believe the new buzz phrase is "Pilot Controlled Field."

That implies that pilots are not in control at other fields, which is
just as bad (if not worse) than implying that a field is out of
control.

No, it implies (to non-pilots) that Towers are in control of other
fields. Remember, most laymen believe that ATC is in charge of every
plane every second, and are surprised when they hear about an airplane
taking off without filing a flight plan.

Kev

Kev writes:

No, it implies (to non-pilots) that Towers are in control of other
fields. Remember, most laymen believe that ATC is in charge of every
plane every second, and are surprised when they hear about an airplane
taking off without filing a flight plan.

I think it's safe to say that the average layman has never heard of
ATC or flight plans. They just think that pilots take off and fly to
their destination. They only call ATC when a mad bomber explodes
something in the starboard can, injuring a pregnant and pretty
stewardess, or when the top of the plane is ripped off and they need
Charleton Heston to bring them in safely.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
"Kev" wrote in
ps.com:

I sometimes think the aviation community should come up with an
alternative description for a wing "stall", so that the layman doesn't
confuse it with engines. Anyone care to propose a nice short
descriptive phrase?

Why should we have to change our use of the term? I think the new term for
an
engine stall should be an engine shutdown, and stall should relate only to
loss of lift over a wing or other airfoil.



The problem is the word stall means something to the general public. When
they hear the word stall they associate with something they understand in
this cas, the engine stopping.