If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Ah, ok.
For some reason I'd thought it only a bit larger than a B1. I beleive about 25% bigger Ron Pilot/Wildland Firefighter |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Yep, the B-1 is a real piece of ****...
Aww, did I hurt your feelings? I'm sorry, circa 1995 the B-1B was relatively useless suffering from problems in its conventional munitions upgrade program and a horrible MC rate. They have, fortunately, fixed many of the problems. Responsible for over 10% of the DMPIs struck in OIF with less than 1% of the sorties... Whatever....who gave you those numbers anyway? 9.4 DMPIs struck per sortie... So? Went downtown Baghdad and Tikrit everyday, even in broad daylight, sometimes with no SEAD support... Wow!!! Really??? Uhh, you do realize nearly everyone did that right? MC rate better than many aircraft during OIF... Great job, first legitimate achievment you've quoted so far. "The weapon of choice"--CAOC Director LOL.....yeah, we've got several quotes in the BUFF world as well that we use to pat ourselves on the back, they don't really mean much more than your MWS some how impressive one of the *numerous* CAOC directors working the floor at PSAB. Hope you had a good laugh back then... Gimme a break. You take yourself (and your jet) far too seriously. In 1995 there were serious concerns about the future of the B-1B. At the time all they could deliver were Mk-82s and CBU-87s, the latter suffering from several problems. At the same time the Bone was capable of delivering just Mk-82s, it was touted by someone in the Pentagon as the; "back bone of the bomber force". Needless to say this didn't go over well in the BUFF world and having a Bone show case an aborted takeoff right in front of visiting Russian aircrew, would have been funny even if the anaolgy with the Blackjack hadn't been drawn. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
So I guess the Piece-of-**** scale is proportional and sliding
based on rank and seriousness of the job of the observer. Absolutely. You've got to remember, it was Bear crews who were laughing. I think the thing that made it a true "bonding" was that everyone realized the similarities between BUFF crews and Bear crews. Both were flying 30+ year old aircraft. Both were more capable than their replacements, yet took a back seat to them, at least publically. And both crews seemed to get a feeling of lack of respect from their own Air Force. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
but it was AF xx 027 on the fin and 1027 on the forward
fuselage. That would have been 61027 on the tail. It also had a red fin flash with yellow lettering that looks something like 'Badoms' ?? Barrons. The 23rd BS is known as the "Barrons" What I wondered was whether you had heard any feedback from these visiting crews?? Just a 1 minute conversation. They said it was a great experience, the Russians treated them very well, both civilian and military and that they hoped to get back there in the future. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Ah, ok.
For some reason I'd thought it only a bit larger than a B1. I beleive about 25% bigger That's the number I've heard as well, 25%. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
"TJ" wrote in message ...
robert arndt wrote: 3 ex-Ukrainian aircraft sold to US as satellite launchers in 1999.. Some dodgy info there in IDMA 2002/3. It was projected but in the end this did not take place. It should have been plainly obvious to IDMA researchers that the sale/project did not go ahead. TJ My bad. IDMA does note that the status of that sale is still unclear. I should have included that in the info provided but I was typing fast. Apparently, in 1999 3 ex-Ukrainian AF Tu-160s were to be sold to US company Platforms International Corp of Mojave. In March 1999 the Ukrainian Govt. authorised the sale of the aircraft for $20 mil to include spares and support for use in satellite launching. The aircraft are to remain at Priluki and be maintained and flown from there by local crews, transitioning to customer countries for satellite launches. The IDMA 2002/2003 was being compiled in 2001 so at that time the status must have been unclear. Thanks for clearing that up. So, when was the status officially changed to no sale? The above information comes from "Directory of Military Aircraft of the World" which was published in 2001. No word from that book if the sale went through or not so I'm assuming that the order was cancelled after IDMA 2002/2003 was published in early 2002? Rob |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks for all the info and replies, guys.
I also didn't realize that there are still Blackjacks in service. I hope they don't end up getting sold to China. (Mike) wrote in message . com... Remember the Soviet "Blackjack" bomber that the U.S.S.R. started to deploy in the late 1980s? Wasn't this plane a virtual copy of the American B-1 in many ways? What about it's range? Could the BlackJack bomber have taken off in the Soviet Union and bombed the United States? Or was it closer to a medium-range bomber like the "Backfire"? |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Great stories BUFDRVR and Jim Baker,
Thats what make coming back to these NG's worthwhile, the real stories as told and remembered by the real people. Wish there were more like that, learned a lot on this one, thanks. On 17 Jan 2004 11:44:54 -0800, (Mike) wrote: Remember the Soviet "Blackjack" bomber that the U.S.S.R. started to deploy in the late 1980s? Wasn't this plane a virtual copy of the American B-1 in many ways? What about it's range? Could the BlackJack bomber have taken off in the Soviet Union and bombed the United States? Or was it closer to a medium-range bomber like the "Backfire"? |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Scott Ferrin wrote in message . ..
Range, loaded on internal fuel - 7,640 miles (B-1B - 3,444 miles) Equipped for IFR. Those are brochure numbers for the Blackjack. How about B1 are the cited numbers for B1 are brochure numbers as well? Pretty much from what I understand. The B-1 is definitely faster than 789 mph though I'd be surprised if any operational aircraft had done a takeoff at 477,000lbs. In the real world (at least as far as FAI records go) the B-1 has the Blackjack beat in the paylaod/range department. In its department where B1 is the only one amybe. Tu160 is much bigger?much faster and longer lange. Speed over a closed circuit of 5000 km with 30000 kg payload : 1054.21 km/h Date of flight: 17/09/1987 Pilot: H. Brent HEDGPETH (USA) Crew: Robert A. CHAMBERLAIN (copilot) Course/place: Palmdale, CA (USA) Aircraft: Rockwell B-1B (4 General Electric F 101-GE-102, 14 700 kg each) Registered 'S/N70' Speed over a closed circuit of 5000 km with 30000 kg payload : 1017.80 km/h Date of flight: 28/05/1990 Pilot: Serguei OSSIPOV (USSR) Crew: D.N. MATVEEV (USSR) Course/place: Podmoskovnoe Aerodrome (USSR) Aircraft: Tupolev Aircraft "70N-304" (Tupolev TU-160 "Blackjack") (4 Model "P", 25 000 kg each) As you can see, with the same 30,000kg payload flown over a distance of 5000km, the Blackjack was slower than the B-1B. Since the Blackjack's record attempt was flown at a later date one would assume they'd try to beat the B-1's. If they did try they failed. The Blackjack also holds no 10,000km speed records while the B-1 does. While this in itself doesn't say the Blackjack can't fly that far, it doesn't exactly help it's case either. Well nobody claims that neither Tu-160 nor B1 can go supesonic for 5000 km. But why you skipped shorter range records? Unlike B1 Tu160 can go supersonic for distances of 1000-2000 km. The later is very important for the battle applications particualrly to hit and escape from fighters attention: Records: Speed over a closed circuit of 1000 km with 30000 kg payload Podmoskovnoe 1726.90 km/h Lev Vasilyevich KOZLOV Tu-160 15/05/1990 Speed over a closed circuit of 2000 km with 30000 kg payload Podmoskovnoe 1678.00 km/h B.I. VEREMEY Tu-160 03/11/1989 Something which B1-B is not capable at all. Michael As for the Blackjack being faster, the lower speed of the B-1b was intentional. The original B-1A reached Mach 2.22 which was faster than the Blackjack. That speed was judged so important that pretty much nobody cared when they gave it up. As for the Blackjack being bigger. . .well if you think an aircraft that needs to be 27% heavier and 83% more powerful to do an inferior job is something to brag about. . .well, that's your business. Anyway do you have any doubts about the question asked "Could Blackjack bombers reach USA?" It probably had the range for a one way trip, but any aircraft that can fly far enough could say the same. |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Scott Ferrin wrote in message . ..
As for the Blackjack being faster, the lower speed of the B-1b was intentional. The original B-1A reached Mach 2.22 which was faster than the Blackjack. That speed was judged so important that pretty much nobody cared when they gave it up. As for the Blackjack being bigger. . .well if you think an aircraft that needs to be 27% heavier and 83% more powerful to do an inferior job is something to brag about. . .well, that's your business. Just to add a few words about their inferior job. Who else can do this inferior job in this world, but americans and russians? Nobody http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...0/123624.shtml "... In the early morning of May 14, six Russian strategic bombers, namely two TU-160Cs and four TU-95MCs belonging to the 37th Strategic Aviation Army, left the Engels airbase near Saratov city and reached the Indian Ocean five hours later. There the TU-95 fired two strategic cruise missiles X-55 (3,000-km range, usually with a nuclear warhead), which "precisely hit ground targets." The Tu-160 bombers flew further and, at a 2,500-km distance, simulated the firing of several X-55 missiles at Diego-Garcia Island. The targets included a U.S. strategic aviation airbase, a naval base, the command and control center of U.S. strategic submarines in the Pacific Ocean, the U.S. electronic reconnaissance center and a nuclear warhead storage facility. Several hours later, the six strategic bombers returned to Engels airbase. According to Russian Air Force Commander-in-Chief Col.-Gen. Vladimir Mikhailov, 1) Russian strategic bombers "visited" the Indian Ocean for the first time since 1990 and 2) the Russian top military command has a definite interest in this region. On May 15, TU-95 and TU-160 strategic bombers and TU-22 long-range bombers accomplished military training over the Polar and Pacific oceans. All the bombers had a full battle load: Each T-95 carried 6 X-55 missiles, each TU-160 12 missiles. The X-55 usually is equipped with a 200-kiloton nuclear warhead. All the bombers simulated hitting important U.S and U.K. targets. However, in accordance with direct orders from Putin to Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov, this time – in contrast with strategic aviation maneuvers in 1999 – Russian bombers didn't approach the borders of Norway, Iceland, Canada, the U.K. and the U.S. This was done to provide a "friendly environment" for the visits of Secretary of State Colin Powell to Moscow on May 16 and President Bush to Petersburg on May 30. During the maneuvers over the Pacific Ocean on May 15, four TU-22 long-range bombers (two from the 37th AF Army, two from the Russian Pacific Ocean Fleet) simulated the simultaneous firing of four X-22 anti-ship missiles at the U.S. aircraft Karl Winson, which was moving at this time from the Yokosoka base in Japan to the coast of North Korea. Maneuvers of Russian bombers in the airspace over the three oceans have been supported by the Russian Northern Fleet, Pacific Fleet, Strategic Missile Troops, Space Troops and two air force and air defense armies. Gen. Mikhailov claimed that a) all goals of the maneuvers were reached and b) in July and August, the 37th Strategic Aviation Army will hold similar large-scale maneuvers (apparently against American and British targets), though the number of participating strategic bombers and long-range bombers will increase two to three times. Remarkably, on May 16, a united group of the Russian Navy, compiled from the vessels from the Pacific Fleet and Black Sea Fleet, held "enemy [U.S. and U.K.] aircraft groups destruction maneuvers" in the Indian Ocean. Concretely, the Moskva missile cruiser launched a P-500 Bazalt anti-ship cruise missile. This missile has a 480-km radius and is usually equipped with a 350-kiloton nuclear warhead. The Moskva missile cruiser has eight cruise missile launchers and a store of 16 Bazalt missiles..." |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Why did Britain win the BoB? | Grantland | Military Aviation | 79 | October 15th 03 03:34 PM |
Bombers and Fighters | ArtKramr | Military Aviation | 4 | September 18th 03 12:37 AM |
water bombers | Stew Hicks | Home Built | 2 | September 8th 03 11:55 PM |
F-111 bombers flying from carriers ? | Mike | Military Aviation | 38 | August 7th 03 12:19 AM |
Backfire bombers: Reach USA ? | Mike | Military Aviation | 11 | July 28th 03 11:56 AM |