Rogue IFR

In a previous article, Sridhar Rajagopal said:
You mean, if there was some cloud cover that you wanted to go through,
to get into the clear above, you cannot do that legally, even if you are
IFR rated, unless you file an IFR plan?

Yes, sort of. You can get on a popup IFR flight plan simply by asking ATC
for an IFR clearance to climb to VFR.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"It's free they say, if you can get it to run, the geeks say `hey, that's half
the fun', but I've got a girlfriend and things to get done, the Linux OS sucks"
- Three Dead Trolls In A Baggie, "Every OS Sucks" http://mp3.com/deadtroll/

"Happy Dog" wrote in message .. .

Why "towered airports"? Anyway, anyone who does much night XC frequently
experiences brief periods of IMC.

Probably because he feels he'd get caught if he showed up ersatz-IFR into a
towered field.

"Sridhar Rajagopal" wrote in message news
You mean, if there was some cloud cover that you wanted to go through,
to get into the clear above, you cannot do that legally, even if you are
IFR rated, unless you file an IFR plan?

Yes, if you are in less than VFR conditions in controlled airspace you must
be on an instrument flight plan. You can get an abbreviated filing of one, but
you have to be on one.

I'm not IFR rated, but my then CFI once did that, so that we could get
some practice in by staying in the clear over the cloud cover.

He was breaking the regs if you were in controlled airspace (just about everywhere
above 1200' in many parts of the country).

"Roger Long" om wrote in
message ...
Yikes! What are they teaching student pilots these days? I've asked here
before and seem to find myself asking myself that question a lot. You
can'
t teach common sense [...]

You said it yourself.

You can teach a person to fly, but you can't take a person with no common
sense and terrible judgment and fix those problems.

What does ATC do when they see a 1200 target boring through what they know
is solid IMC?

They have no way of knowing one way to the other what the weather is. If
they see a 1200 target, they will generally announce that target to flights
under their control or receiving VFR traffic advisories. If a pilot
requests it, ATC can provide vectors to avoid the traffic.

Pete

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...
You would need a PIREP from someone at the same spot at the same time.

Even in that case, you are relying on the pilot providing the PIREP to do so
accurately. ATC has no way of knowing for sure the PIREP is accurate.

Pete

"Roger Long"
While the GPS may give them more accuracy, this was being done long
before the GPS became available.

But now they live long enough to amaze the rest of us

Seriously though, I'm sure the accuracy of the GPS and the cute little
moving map makes this much more tempting, and thus, common.

Yeah, but GPS direct flight also takes advantage of the wide open sky and
hopefully keeps all of us off the same airway.

"Sridhar Rajagopal" wrote in message
news
You mean, if there was some cloud cover that you wanted to go through,
to get into the clear above, you cannot do that legally, even if you are
IFR rated, unless you file an IFR plan?

I'm not IFR rated, but my then CFI once did that, so that we could get
some practice in by staying in the clear over the cloud cover.

As others have said, he could have worked it as a popup, and you might have
missed him talking to ATC (it can be done with very little talk) and you may
even have missed him entering a code in the transponder. Otherwise, there is
only a very small chance it was legal, unless your airport is in one of
those few areas where Class G goes up high. Assuming the airport was itself
in CGAS, and even if the Class G ceiling was at 1200ft, he had to be sure
that the *tops* were no higher than 200ft, and how could he know that?
Didn't we just have this discussion? (or maybe that was on r.a.ifr).

Did he use an instrument approach to get back home?

-- David Brooks

"Michael 182"
You wouldn't from the scope, but there are plenty of days when the
conditions are well known. Do you mean you have no idea what the cloud
conditions are as a controller? Not such that you can decide if he is
violating VFR, but enough to know, at least in your own head, that there
is
no way this guy is VMC...

Actually, I'm thinking the other way around. Seems like that are a lot of
days where you might 'know' the guy violated VFR to get there and to get
where ever he's going. But unless you are in it and close by, you really
don't know if the guy might be VMC or IMC at a given momeent.

Scary any way you look at it.

at least the "signature" might not be faked.. I'd ask him to stop doing that
right away..

and perhaps a "informant" call to the local FSDO? to protect your own arse

BT

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Yikes is right! That's about as bad as when one student I was giving a
BFR
to related to me that he knows another pilot uses his name a lot as
"Safety
Pilot" to stay current!! I about choked and told him that he should put
an
end to that before the guys widowed wife's lawyer called him someday
saying
how he noticed his name in the other pilots log book a lot.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"Roger Long" om wrote
in
message ...
I ran into an old client today and we stumbled on to the flying topic.
Turns out he got his PP a couple years ago and bought a plane.

He said with a completely straight face that he's thinking of getting an
instrument rating because he "flies in IMC a lot." He does OK but would
like to be able to ask ATC where the other planes are and fly into
towered
airports.

Yikes! What are they teaching student pilots these days? I've asked
here
before and seem to find myself asking myself that question a lot. You
can'
t teach common sense but the legality of what he's doing didn't even
seem
to
be on his radar screen.

What does ATC do when they see a 1200 target boring through what they
know
is solid IMC?

--
Roger Long

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

Even in that case, you are relying on the pilot providing the PIREP to do
so
accurately. ATC has no way of knowing for sure the PIREP is accurate.


PIREPs are assumed to be accurate.