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#21
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Attention US Standard Class Pilots
On Feb 9, 1:13*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
I知 still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great! What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8, D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880 handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to 3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do. Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a US contest? -John Hi John, The 2% adjustments have been dropped. See page 3 of http://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012...mmary%20v4.pdf QT |
#22
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Attention US Standard Class Pilots
John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:13 pm, jcarlyle wrote: I知 still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great! What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8, D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880 handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to 3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do. Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a US contest? -John Hi John, The 2% adjustments have been dropped. See page 3 of http://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012...mmary%20v4.pdf QT Thanks, QT, I obviously didn't see that document! I'll be sure to download the 2012 US contest rules when they're released. -John |
#23
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Attention US Standard Class Pilots
On Feb 9, 2:19*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
John Godfrey (QT) wrote: On Feb 9, 1:13 pm, jcarlyle wrote: I知 still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great! What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8, D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880 handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to 3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do. Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a US contest? -John Hi John, The 2% adjustments have been dropped. See page 3 ofhttp://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012%20Rules%20Changes%20Summary%20v4... QT Thanks, QT, I obviously didn't see that document! I'll be sure to download the 2012 US contest rules when they're released. -John- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - They are approved as of last Saturday UH |
#24
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Attention US Standard Class Pilots
Hank,
I think there is a need to attrack more pilots to fly Std. Class Nationals. Ideas to include others are a great step forward. Tim Hanke Discus 2ax On Feb 8, 9:38*am, wrote: The US competition Rules Committee is considering doing a one time test of limited handicapping in the Standard Class at the 2012 nationals in Montegue. This would be done under a waiver. The objective is to try to improve participation and determine if this is an effective means of doing so. All conforming Std gliders may compete as usual. Std class gliders only. US handicap list will be used to handicap gliders with a maximum adjustment of 3 1/2%. This range is .915 to .950. Gliders such as Discus, ASW-24, DG300, and LS-4 would get full adjustment relative to current .915 gliders such as '28, Discus 2, LS-8. Gliders with numerical *handicaps above .950 get maximum of 3 1/2% adjustment. We have done limited informal polling and have good acceptance among those we have talked to. We would like input from other Standard class pilots who may be affected. Please feel free to comment here and/or directly to me. UH US RC Chair |
#25
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Attention US Standard Class Pilots
wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:19 pm, jcarlyle wrote: John Godfrey (QT) wrote: On Feb 9, 1:13 pm, jcarlyle wrote: I知 still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great! What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8, D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880 handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to 3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do. Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a US contest? -John Hi John, The 2% adjustments have been dropped. See page 3 ofhttp://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012%20Rules%20Changes%20Summary%20v4... QT Thanks, QT, I obviously didn't see that document! I'll be sure to download the 2012 US contest rules when they're released. -John- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - They are approved as of last Saturday UH OK, but one cannot download them at the SSA site. SSA says Mar 1. Perhaps QT will give us a heads-up again this year when we can retrieve them? -John |
#26
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Attention US Standard Class Pilots
On Feb 9, 3:34*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
wrote: On Feb 9, 2:19 pm, jcarlyle wrote: John Godfrey (QT) wrote: On Feb 9, 1:13 pm, jcarlyle wrote: I知 still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great! What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8, D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880 handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to 3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do. Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a US contest? -John Hi John, The 2% adjustments have been dropped. See page 3 ofhttp://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012%20Rules%20Changes%20Summary%20v4... QT Thanks, QT, I obviously didn't see that document! I'll be sure to download the 2012 US contest rules when they're released. -John- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - They are approved as of last Saturday UH OK, but one cannot download them at the SSA site. SSA says Mar 1. Perhaps QT will give us a heads-up again this year when we can retrieve them? -John I'll do my best to get them finished and posted before then. QT |
#27
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Attention US Standard Class Pilots
On Feb 9, 3:34*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
wrote: On Feb 9, 2:19 pm, jcarlyle wrote: John Godfrey (QT) wrote: On Feb 9, 1:13 pm, jcarlyle wrote: I知 still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great! What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8, D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880 handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to 3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do. Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a US contest? -John Hi John, The 2% adjustments have been dropped. See page 3 ofhttp://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012%20Rules%20Changes%20Summary%20v4... QT Thanks, QT, I obviously didn't see that document! I'll be sure to download the 2012 US contest rules when they're released. -John- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - They are approved as of last Saturday UH OK, but one cannot download them at the SSA site. SSA says Mar 1. Perhaps QT will give us a heads-up again this year when we can retrieve them? -John- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Read proposed rules doc. for information. It was approved as proposed and has explanations. UH |
#28
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Attention US Standard Class Pilots
The problem with glider racing has been technology improving the
product, making anything less than the latest (most expensive) glider uncompetitive. This has limited the field to those who have the money and desire to always have the best, or in some cases the glider with the highest wing loading. The Seniors contest proves it can be done. It is over-subscribed and everyone (over 55) is welcome - bring what you got, (no water ballast, 20 meter limit) and you fly with a handicap that permits anyone to be able to win. The Sports class tries to do this, however, span / wing loading wins. Sports Class handicaps combined with span-limited contests might attract many more pilots because they would actually have a realistic chance to win. Tom Knauff |
#29
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Attention US Standard Class Pilots
On Feb 10, 7:42*am, Tom wrote:
The problem with glider racing has been technology improving the product, making anything less than the latest (most expensive) glider uncompetitive. This has limited the field to those who have the money and desire to always have the best, or in some cases the glider with the highest wing loading. The Seniors contest proves it can be done. *It is over-subscribed and everyone (over 55) *is welcome - bring what you got, (no water ballast, 20 meter limit) and you fly with a handicap that permits anyone to be able to win. The Sports class tries to do this, however, span / wing loading wins. Sports Class handicaps combined with span-limited contests might attract many more pilots because they would actually have a realistic chance to win. Tom Knauff Sports class contests (at the Regional level this year) can have multiple sports rules classes organized by handicap, pilot experience and other ideas. From the2012 rule changes document on the SSA web site: 5.7 Competition Classes 5.7.1 The gliders eligible to compete are described in Rule 6.12. 5.7.2 A competition can include more than one handicapped class 5.7.2.1 Entries to a competition class can be restricted based on criteria specified by the contest organizers on the application for sanction form. Possible criteria include (but are not limited to) maximum wingspan or a handicap range (or a combination). 5.7.2.2 The handicap ranges of competition classes may overlap. 5.7.2.3 Competition classes can be labeled, promoted and tasked to appeal to pilots by skill level rather than or in addition to limitation on gliders. QT |
#30
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Attention US Standard Class Pilots
Sports class contests (at the Regional level this year) can have
multiple sports rules classes organized by handicap, pilot experience and other ideas. From the2012 rule changes document on the SSA web site: 5.7 Competition Classes 5.7.1 The gliders eligible to compete are described in Rule 6.12. 5.7.2 A competition can include more than one handicapped class 5.7.2.1 Entries to a competition class can be restricted based on criteria specified by the contest organizers on the application for sanction form. Possible criteria include (but are not limited to) maximum wingspan or a handicap range (or a combination). 5.7.2.2 The handicap ranges of competition classes may overlap. 5.7.2.3 Competition classes can be labeled, promoted and tasked to appeal to pilots by skill level rather than or in addition to limitation on gliders. QT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As a technical qualification, these handicapped classes can be "FAI" classes, run under the FAI regional rules, not just "sports" classes run under sports rules. That means tasking, minimum time, water, and general philosophy of FAI class races. Think of them as FAI classes mixed with handicaps, or reaching out to older FAI gliders with handicaps, not necessarily as "sports" classes. This also replaces the idea of mixing two FAI classes with 2% handicaps. The standard nationals proposal essentially implements the same idea at nationals. You can also have mulitple "sports" classes, for example splitting by glider performance or by pilot skill, and using the sports class regional rules in each case. John Cochrane |
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