Question for US Rules committee on AH capability within LX NAV computers?

All this defending of the "march of technology" by Sean makes me wonder if I am the only one not climbing into the clouds? I use LK8000 competition version and can attest that it still does everything I need to do in VFR weather.

Lane
XF

I suggest that we rewrite FAI Sporting Code and any national rules for the simple reason of stopping these endless threads.

On 4/7/2012 1:50 PM, rk wrote:
I suggest that we rewrite FAI Sporting Code and any national rules for the
simple reason of stopping these endless threads.

Heh.

And fully realizing we both are contributors to the "endlessness", rk's post
did raise a (serious) question in my noodle.

Is the objection to: a) the thread length; b) the (entirely unnecessary and
easily avoidable, it seems to me) unpleasantness of a number of the posts; c)
the very topic; d) other???

It is, after all, easy enough to ignore reading posts...

Bob - curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back - W.

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 5:26:50 PM UTC-4, Max Kellermann wrote:
Sean Fidler wrote:
How is this for a logo for "not XC Soar" without the totally unusable 1 cm^2 "AH" box.

https://plus.google.com/photos/10776...52900309699361

LOL, I would "+1" this if I had an account :-)

Don't forget to copy the FAI, I'm sure they will enjoy it also.
FAI Sporting Code (Section 3, Annex A, 4.1.2b)

I'm planning an updated glider panel with the intention of racing in the future in the US. In a thirty year old club class glider. I've found it very frustrating how little current, concise, useful information is available about what instruments are acceptable, what software is acceptable, etc.

-Are LXNAV products with AHRS available by software key allowed? They are not on this list:

http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rest...0Approvals.pdf

Butterfly is the only item on that list. Doesn't seem to be a very popular or effective "approval" process.

-The "restricted device policy" suggests a burner phone be carried as opposed to a functional modern phone. Is that the official policy of SSA in 2017?
-The "restricted device policy" claims there will be a list published of acceptable software. And unacceptable software. That might be useful. Where is it?
-This antique discussion thread implies that XCSoar (which as of 2017 still has a not-very-good AH option) is illegal. Is it? Do I have to run some forked version of it?
-In the year 2017 is anyone in the US competing using XCSoar as a flight computer? On a phone with no SIM card installed?

Everything but refrigerators now comes with a built in inertial platform. If you want to guarantee no one flies in cloud, mandate dashcams.

https://www.amazon.com/Btopllc-Recor...words=dash+cam

-Are LXNAV products with AHRS available by software key allowed? They are not on this list:
-The "restricted device policy" claims there will be a list published of acceptable software. And unacceptable software. That might be useful. Where is it?
-This antique discussion thread implies that XCSoar (which as of 2017 still has a not-very-good AH option) is illegal. Is it? Do I have to run some forked version of it?
-In the year 2017 is anyone in the US competing using XCSoar as a flight computer? On a phone with no SIM card installed?


Since no one here is interested in answering these questions, is there anyone at SSA I should be emailing? Calling? Sending a letter?

The SSA "Guide to Competition" also says exactly nothing about flight computers, instruments, etc....

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 4:32:23 PM UTC-6, wrote:
-Are LXNAV products with AHRS available by software key allowed? They are not on this list:
-The "restricted device policy" claims there will be a list published of acceptable software. And unacceptable software. That might be useful. Where is it?
-This antique discussion thread implies that XCSoar (which as of 2017 still has a not-very-good AH option) is illegal. Is it? Do I have to run some forked version of it?
-In the year 2017 is anyone in the US competing using XCSoar as a flight computer? On a phone with no SIM card installed?


Since no one here is interested in answering these questions, is there anyone at SSA I should be emailing? Calling? Sending a letter?

The SSA "Guide to Competition" also says exactly nothing about flight computers, instruments, etc....

One thought I have is that you may want to email your regional director, the SSA Secretary and/or contest committee members. If they cannot answer your questions hopefully, they can then forward your message to someone who may be able to answer your questions. Please go to the SSA.org site and then click on "The SSA" and then go to "About the SSA" and then go to "Governance." Once in "Governance" you will see at the bottom "Other Volunteer Committees." There you will find info and emails for your regional director, EXCOM members, state governors, contest committee folks, etc, etc....Good luck on your search for answers. Hopefully, someone will be able to answer your great questions! Renny

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 3:32:23 PM UTC-7, wrote:
-Are LXNAV products with AHRS available by software key allowed? They are not on this list:
-The "restricted device policy" claims there will be a list published of acceptable software. And unacceptable software. That might be useful. Where is it?
-This antique discussion thread implies that XCSoar (which as of 2017 still has a not-very-good AH option) is illegal. Is it? Do I have to run some forked version of it?
-In the year 2017 is anyone in the US competing using XCSoar as a flight computer? On a phone with no SIM card installed?


Since no one here is interested in answering these questions, is there anyone at SSA I should be emailing? Calling? Sending a letter?

The SSA "Guide to Competition" also says exactly nothing about flight computers, instruments, etc....

I do not fly in many contests so I am not an authority, but from what I can tell it is entirely up to the contest organizers to enforce this, and few (or none?) of them do. First, you would need to confiscate everyone's cell phone. I have seen no one using a cheap analog burner phone. Second, anyone with an LX system with the capability would need to demount it and leave it in the car. With an Air Avionics (Butterfly) there is the ability to disable the AHRS for a period of time to include the contest interval. This method has been approved by the SSA. The log generated by the Air Avionics ISU will state whether the AHRS is available for the scorer to see. This is ludicrously easy to defeat: simply turn in a log from another logger.

I have flown in SSA contest with the AHRS available, and made no secret of it. It isn't a piece of safety gear I will willingly defeat. If I use it to escape from a cloud and live to tell the tail, your damn right I am going to be telling the tail around the campfire that night!

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 6:32:23 PM UTC-4, wrote:
-Are LXNAV products with AHRS available by software key allowed? They are not on this list:
-The "restricted device policy" claims there will be a list published of acceptable software. And unacceptable software. That might be useful. Where is it?
-This antique discussion thread implies that XCSoar (which as of 2017 still has a not-very-good AH option) is illegal. Is it? Do I have to run some forked version of it?
-In the year 2017 is anyone in the US competing using XCSoar as a flight computer? On a phone with no SIM card installed?


Since no one here is interested in answering these questions, is there anyone at SSA I should be emailing? Calling? Sending a letter?

The SSA "Guide to Competition" also says exactly nothing about flight computers, instruments, etc....

I have been away from my desk for a few days and am sorry for reply that is too slow for your needs.
The relevant information is available on the SSA web site.
Sailplane racing
Contest Rules and process
Important reading
You will find the applicable guidance documents there.
UH
RC Chair

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 10:35:22 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 6:32:23 PM UTC-4, wrote:
-Are LXNAV products with AHRS available by software key allowed? They are not on this list:
-The "restricted device policy" claims there will be a list published of acceptable software. And unacceptable software. That might be useful. Where is it?
-This antique discussion thread implies that XCSoar (which as of 2017 still has a not-very-good AH option) is illegal. Is it? Do I have to run some forked version of it?
-In the year 2017 is anyone in the US competing using XCSoar as a flight computer? On a phone with no SIM card installed?


Since no one here is interested in answering these questions, is there anyone at SSA I should be emailing? Calling? Sending a letter?

The SSA "Guide to Competition" also says exactly nothing about flight computers, instruments, etc....

I have been away from my desk for a few days and am sorry for reply that is too slow for your needs.
The relevant information is available on the SSA web site.
Sailplane racing
Contest Rules and process
Important reading
You will find the applicable guidance documents there.
UH
RC Chair

With all due respect sir I looked at all that information and then asked several specific questions (which you've just quoted) that are as near as I can tell unanswered by the documents on the SSA website. You'll notice I'm asking specific questions based on language in the documents you just suggested I read.

Meanwhile other racers have reassured me that the stuff I'm considering is commonly used, but technically illegal, and that doesn't exactly give me a warm feeling about buying instruments etc.

Thank you for the response. I reiterate that if you want to prove no one is flying in cloud there is a simple, cheap solution to that in 2017 that doesn't require all of this handwringing. I suspect that wouldn't be popular as it might call into question some folks measurement of 500 feet.