Help me clear up my brain fart

(Ekim) wrote
"Never cross control!!!"
"Keep that ball centered!"
"Never use more than 20 degrees bank!"
"Too high on final - go around. Never slip unless its an emergency
landing."

These are things that were hammered in my head by my numerous CFIs
during pattern training as a student pilot.

Too bad. They're mostly poor procedure.

Don't cross control in climb and cruise - it's inefficient. Keep the
ball centered. Same while practicing stalls and slow flight - you're
pretty likely to drop a wing, or even spin, if you stall
uncoordinated. You can't slip without cross controlling, and you
can't make decent crosswind landings without slipping.

20 degrees of bank is ridiculous. ANY amount of bank is OK, as long
as you keep some things in mind. Stall speed goes up in a banked turn
- so make sure you maintain enough airspeed for a safe margin. At 45
degrees of bank, stall speed goes up about 20%, so 1.2 Vso isn't
really safe anymore. Keep the speed up at 1.4 Vso, and banking 45
degrees in the pattern is no problem. You can always slow to 1.2 Vso
on final.

Slipping on final is a normal way to control glideslope in a light
single engine airplane. Some airplanes, lacking flaps, allow no other
way unless you want to bet it all on the engine.

Was all that preaching JUST to reduce the chance of invoking a deadly
spin in case the wings are accidentally stalled? It seems to all
contradict everything about slips on final and the famous
"low-wing-into-the-wind" crosswind landings?

Actually, all that preaching was to reduce your CFI's level of
discomfort. I bet the CFI's who told you this stuff were all airline
pilot wannabes, building hours until they could get hired by the
commuters. These guys are often taught flight procedures that are
appropriate for heavy, multiengine airplanes from day one, because
that's what they're going to be flying. The problem is that it's all
they know AND they are inexperienced, so anything else scares them.
Thus they teach you to do it the only way they know. It would be OK
if you were also going on to the airlines, but if that's not your goal
they've done you a great disservice. As another poster mentioned,
flying this way means you will never be able to fly a taildragger.
You will also never be able to operate from the really interesting -
meaning short, rough, and obstructed - strips. But as long as you
stick to flying simple non-demanding airplanes from long smooth
runways you will be fine.

In my mind, as long as I keep my airspeed sufficiently high and keep
the nose pointed down, (ie. keep my AOA under control) things like a
steeper banks and routine slip to landings should be relatively safe.
Right?

Yes, absolutely.

However, you may find getting a taildragger endorsement to be a
worthwhile investment in your flying skills. It will give you an
opportunity to unlearn the bad habits you've been taught.

Michael

(Ekim) wrote in message . com...
"Never cross control!!!"
"Keep that ball centered!"
"Never use more than 20 degrees bank!"
"Too high on final - go around. Never slip unless its an emergency
landing."

Never slip unless it is an emergency landing? That's a great time to
be learning how your plane handles in a slip!

I wouldn't want to try to fly into a short strip, or Oshkosh during
the fly-in, or in a plane without flaps following those rules.

They are conservative rules that were designed to keep you out of
trouble, and force you to fly a standard, predictable and coordinated
pattern while learning (a good idea). But your plane is capable of
much more, and with practice you can be too.

-Bruce B

"Too high on final - go around. Never slip unless its an emergency
landing."

If you never use a slip until it's an emergency.. you may not do it right
when you need to..

Slip to landing is part of the Glider Practical Test Standard..

BT

If you never use a slip until it's an emergency.. you may not do it right
when you need to..

Slip to landing is part of the Glider Practical Test Standard..

It's part of the Private AIRPLANE test standards as well.

(Ekim) writes:

"Never cross control!!!"
"Keep that ball centered!"
"Never use more than 20 degrees bank!"
"Too high on final - go around. Never slip unless its an emergency
landing."

I understand. It took me a long time to get rid of that kind of stuff
too.

If you can, get some instruction and time in a J-3 Cub. It slips
beautifully and will cure you of worries about cross-controlling, etc.
There's no flying experience like slipping a Cub to landing on a grass
strip on a warm summer evening, the strong Delta breeze offering a
hint of a cool, pleasant night. In the distance, I can easily see the
skyscrapers and Capitol Building of downtown, but as I turn onto final
my only thoughts are to avoid that big, damn oak tree right at the
base of the levee on the Sacramento River. That, and the power lines.
It's a game to see how close I

Oops. Got carried away in my little daydream. The Aircoupe I have
now has rudder pedals but doesn't slip for squat. But seriously, get
some Cub time and get those feet moving. Then get a spin endorsement
and you'll be a happy flyer.

On 11 Nov 2003 17:50:35 -0800, Bob Fry wrote:

(Ekim) writes:

"Never cross control!!!"
"Keep that ball centered!"
"Never use more than 20 degrees bank!"
"Too high on final - go around. Never slip unless its an emergency
landing."

I understand. It took me a long time to get rid of that kind of stuff
too.

If you can, get some instruction and time in a J-3 Cub. It slips
beautifully and will cure you of worries about cross-controlling, etc.
There's no flying experience like slipping a Cub to landing on a grass
strip on a warm summer evening, the strong Delta breeze offering a
hint of a cool, pleasant night. In the distance, I can easily see the
skyscrapers and Capitol Building of downtown, but as I turn onto final
my only thoughts are to avoid that big, damn oak tree right at the
base of the levee on the Sacramento River. That, and the power lines.
It's a game to see how close I

Oops. Got carried away in my little daydream. The Aircoupe I have
now has rudder pedals but doesn't slip for squat. But seriously, get
some Cub time and get those feet moving. Then get a spin endorsement
and you'll be a happy flyer.

We ought to be mentioning that the danger in crossing controls is
skids, not slips. A stall from a skid as you hurry yourself around
during an overshot final can have you spinning-in awfully quick.

Kirschner used to have a dandy series of drawings in the old Private
Pilot Guide. Did they go away in the new book?

Don

"Don Tuite" wrote in message ...

We ought to be mentioning that the danger in crossing controls is
skids, not slips.

And skidding is not normally CROSS controlled.

Huh?

mike regish

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

"Don Tuite" wrote in message
...

We ought to be mentioning that the danger in crossing controls is
skids, not slips.

And skidding is not normally CROSS controlled.

"mike regish" wrote in message
news:IBxsb.184901$e01.665122@attbi_s02...
And skidding is not normally CROSS controlled.

Huh?

I think he means that skidding usually doesn't happen in the presence of
opposite aileron input.

"Cross-controlled" is not exactly the same as "uncoordinated".

Pete

I think Ron means I was so terse I uttered nonsense. For what I was
trying to say, see:

http://www.faatest.com/books/FLT/Cha...ntrolStall.htm

Don

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:28:08 GMT, "mike regish"
wrote:

Huh?

mike regish

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...

"Don Tuite" wrote in message
.. .

We ought to be mentioning that the danger in crossing controls is
skids, not slips.

And skidding is not normally CROSS controlled.