OK, what the hell has happened to the Brits?

Didnt you know? When a bullet punctures a window, it blows out and all the
people get sucked out - unless they hang on to a chair, in which case you
flap like a flag in the wind until your fingers give out...

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
Now the British airline pilots are considering refusingto fly if there is
an
armed security guard on a flight, citing the danger of a gunshot in a
pressurized airliner.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/ukresponse...863275,00.html

What?

Are they using "Goldfinger" as a training film there now?

Or has hoplophobia just turned their minds to goo?

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"H.J." wrote in message
...
Didnt you know? When a bullet punctures a window, it blows out and all the
people get sucked out - unless they hang on to a chair, in which case you
flap like a flag in the wind until your fingers give out...

Except that air marshalls are issued plastic frangible bullets that cannot
puncture the cabin of an aircraft.



"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
Now the British airline pilots are considering refusingto fly if there
is
an
armed security guard on a flight, citing the danger of a gunshot in a
pressurized airliner.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/ukresponse...863275,00.html

What?

Are they using "Goldfinger" as a training film there now?

Or has hoplophobia just turned their minds to goo?

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"H.J." wrote in message
...
Didnt you know? When a bullet punctures a window, it blows out and all the
people get sucked out - unless they hang on to a chair, in which case you
flap like a flag in the wind until your fingers give out...


That is awesome! Made me laugh. Except I believe air marshals use
amunition that is "aircraft friendly." It is the ammunition the terrorists
are using that you may have to worry about. But in that case, I would
welcome an airmarshal being on board my plane.

Now the British airline pilots are considering refusingto fly if there is an
armed security guard on a flight, citing the danger of a gunshot in a
pressurized airliner.

I was driving home from Cannon Mountain yesterday afternoon, and
listening to NRP (National Partisan Radio) as I went. The subject of
air marshals came up. The Talking Head was a London-based security
consultant. He said in effect:

"You don't want guns on aircraft at 30,000 feet. The air marshals have
frangible bullets, of course. But what's to stop the terrorist from
getting into a shootout with the air marshal? The terrorist won't have
frangible bullets. Then you have the specter of a bullet piercing the
airplane's skin, explosion decompression and all that entails, even
unto passengers being sucked out of the aircraft."

The statement, of course, went unchallenged by the host.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote:

I was driving home from Cannon Mountain yesterday afternoon, and
listening to NRP (National Partisan Radio) as I went. The subject of
air marshals came up. The Talking Head was a London-based security
consultant. He said in effect:

"You don't want guns on aircraft at 30,000 feet. The air marshals have
frangible bullets, of course. But what's to stop the terrorist from
getting into a shootout with the air marshal? The terrorist won't have
frangible bullets. Then you have the specter of a bullet piercing the
airplane's skin, explosion decompression and all that entails, even
unto passengers being sucked out of the aircraft."

The statement, of course, went unchallenged by the host.

What would you challenge? The fact that you don't want guns on board?
The possibility of explosive decompression?

I have seen it said that a bullet hole through the skin would not
cause explosive decompression. I can believe that is true if it is a
small hole, from relatively perpendicular to the skin. What if the
bullet was at a shallow angle to the skin however, as if it had been
fired along the cabin? Then I would imagine the hole would be more
like a long tear, and explosive decompression seems more likely. There
is a lot of pressure there, remember Comets, JAL, Aloha airlines etc.

I have seen it said that a bullet hole through the skin would not
cause explosive decompression. I can believe that is true if it is a
small hole, from relatively perpendicular to the skin. What if the
bullet was at a shallow angle to the skin however, as if it had been
fired along the cabin? Then I would imagine the hole would be more
like a long tear, and explosive decompression seems more likely.


If the bullet hits the s in at a shallow angle, there will be much less force
perpendicular to the skin, and it will be less likely to be punctured. The
bullet will just ricochet.

Jose





--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

(Teacherjh) wrote:

If the bullet hits the s in at a shallow angle, there will be much less force
perpendicular to the skin, and it will be less likely to be punctured. The
bullet will just ricochet.

Jose

My impression is that the skin is not that strong, if you apply a
force to a single point like that. It's more like a balloon or an egg
- strong enough for the forces it is designed for, but vulnerable to
other things. I would be surprised if the skin would deflect a bullet
without sustaining enough damage that a puncture is possible.

Teacherjh wrote:

If the bullet hits the s in at a shallow angle, there will be much less force
perpendicular to the skin, and it will be less likely to be punctured. The
bullet will just ricochet.

I think you've confused the skin of an aircraft with that of an armoured personel
carrier. It won't ricochet off a car, much less a plane. Still, the usual pistol
round is unlikely to do much damage unless it hits a structural frame just right
or hits equipment (such as an engine) outside the cabin.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

Check out skin thickness on a passenger jet as you enter the door. Jose's
answer is more likely correct. But in any case I'd rather take a chance on
that than knowing the terrorist controls the p lane and we will all be blown
to bits against his target, or shot down by a fighter. No other options,
old chap, unless some of the passengers are armed. There, I prefer air
marshals or myself.
EGB
"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

I have seen it said that a bullet hole through the skin would not
cause explosive decompression. I can believe that is true if it is a
small hole, from relatively perpendicular to the skin. What if the
bullet was at a shallow angle to the skin however, as if it had been
fired along the cabin? Then I would imagine the hole would be more
like a long tear, and explosive decompression seems more likely.


If the bullet hits the s in at a shallow angle, there will be much less
force
perpendicular to the skin, and it will be less likely to be punctured.
The
bullet will just ricochet.

Jose





--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

In article , "Ed"
writes:

Check out skin thickness on a passenger jet as you enter the door. Jose's
answer is more likely correct. But in any case I'd rather take a chance on
that than knowing the terrorist controls the p lane and we will all be blown
to bits against his target, or shot down by a fighter. No other options,
old chap, unless some of the passengers are armed. There, I prefer air
marshals or myself.

I am surprised so many people cannot see that.

They are so concerned about the unlikely possibility that a stray bullet might
hit them, or something critical, in a shootout with a terrorist, but they are
oblivious to the fact that if that shootout does not take place and the
terrorist succeeds, their death, and many others, are certain.

They give firearms magical powers not supported by reason.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG