Madness

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:09:08 -0700 "Tom Sixkiller" wrote:


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"R.Hubbell" wrote in message |
|
| So if you're not afraid and suspicious of our own government then you
must
| be very naive or conveniently ignorant. As far as I can tell the only
| people that like Bush and Co. are the very rich. Anyone else is naive
or
| a fool if they think this admin. is doing them any good. If you're
under
| $500,000/yr you are taking it you-know-where. Have a close look at AMT
if
| you are in disbelief. If you like your money you can't like Bush and
Co.
|
|

Fantasy. Pure fantasy. The vast majority of Bush supporters make far less
than $500,000 per year. It would be interesting to know how you came up
with
this idiotic theory.

Look at Clinton/Gore supporters for the most wealthy.


Are they running again?




Anyway, what is it that you have against the rich that you keep going on
tirades against them? Were you personally planning on staying poor all
your
life? (Of course! You are a pilot, so by definition you will be poor all
your life. Must be Bush's fault.)

Must be!

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...70645& itm=20

I don't envy anyone if that's what the implication was.

It's not all Bush's fault but he has no intention of reversing any trends
and he's the president so that's where the blame rests right now.


By the way the ultra rich don't care if a president is republican, democrat or
(pick your favorite third party) they just want to be able to buy influence
and peddle some and keep making more money.


R. Hubbell

Now that's truly terrifying...

mike regish

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
.net...

These incidents are going to happen, and they're going to happen again, so
you better get used to it.

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

9-11 has changed the way we will live in the United States for the
foreseeable future. I think It remains to be seen how it all will sort out
as the security issues are dealt with. It's a veritable certainty that there
will be more incidents like the stupid one at Staples, and more incidents in
general that will cause great concern about the rights issue.
The security issue is a huge paradox that many are afraid to face openly and
many are facing incorrectly in my opinion anyway.
The plain simple truth of it is that we have people out there who want to
kill us, and we're a free society. Our borders are wide open and we're faced
with some very real issues here; the least of which is that it's a simple
truth that in a totally free society, total security is
impossible....period! Somewhere along the line we're going to have to make
some hard choices. If we want security, we're going to have to sacrifice
some rights, it's THAT simple. We either do it, or they're going to
eventually nail us again, and even if we DO do it, there's a good chance
they'll get us again anyway. Also, if we do it, our own government can nail
us. As they say, "it ain't a pretty picture".
Right now we're all involved in this huge American "discussion" about our
rights and security. Some think we can have security without giving up some
rights. I don't think that's possible. I could be wrong. I hope so, because
if I'm right, we can look forward to more loss of rights in the name of
security. Just take a look at what's happening in general aviation. Hell, if
it keeps up at the present rate, there won't be any more general aviation.
Every time some idiot in a 150 flies into restricted airspace, we get closer
to having more government intervention. Then we have the profiling
issues........the political issues.........the.............
What a wonderful state of affairs . We want our security. We want our
rights. Can we have both? I wonder!!!! How many rights are we willing to
give up for security? It's indeed a perplexing problem. Which is it to be;
do we trust the government or not?
The answer for Americans my friend, "is blowin in the wind".....and the
terrorists know this as sure as God made little green apples.
Whatever we do, we better get our collective butts in gear and get this
settled fast....and I mean FAST!!!

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"mike regish" wrote in message
news:ZI1Mb.17675$Rc4.72892@attbi_s54...
Now that's truly terrifying...

mike regish

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
.net...

These incidents are going to happen, and they're going to happen again,
so
you better get used to it.

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

I agree with Dudley that this is an isolated case and should be treated as
such. I have a great deal of faith in this country and I think that
eventually a lot of these imbalances will get evened out.

However, I do think it is worthwhile paying attention to incidents like
this. First of all, we do not want through our silence to allow others to
believe that this is acceptable or normal behavior. America may be basically
self correcting, but it will not be self correcting if we just stand by and
let things like this happen. Ridicule, scorn, protest, or whatever other
activities that you can do to register that this incident is wrong, we don't
want any more incidents like this, and that we don't want to go any further
down this road are entirely appropriate.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...

However, I do think it is worthwhile paying attention to incidents like
this. First of all, we do not want through our silence to allow others to
believe that this is acceptable or normal behavior. America may be basically
self correcting, but it will not be self correcting if we just stand by and
let things like this happen. Ridicule, scorn, protest, or whatever other
activities that you can do to register that this incident is wrong, we don't
want any more incidents like this, and that we don't want to go any further
down this road are entirely appropriate.

That's the key. To say nothing helps perpetuate this kind of
irresponsible hysteria. I, for one, don't particularly care to live
in some sort of Stalinist-like society where panicky idiots are
encouraged to inform on their neighbors and customers. If someone
can't walk into a store and inquire about purchasing one of the best
selling pieces of entertainment software in history without having the
cops show up at the door, then something is seriously amiss.

I read a few stories about this over the weekend and was even more
dismayed that the Staples spokesperson supported this action in the
name of "safety". Cooincidentally, I was planning on going to Staples
on Sunday to pick up about $600 worth of office equipment and
furniture. I fired off an email to the VP of Public Relations
telling him what I thought of their practice and then cancelled my
order and bought from their competitor. It won't make any difference
in their bottom line, but perhaps it might make coporate think twice
about their "security" policies.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
I agree with Dudley that this is an isolated case and should be treated as
such. I have a great deal of faith in this country and I think that
eventually a lot of these imbalances will get evened out.

However, I do think it is worthwhile paying attention to incidents like
this. First of all, we do not want through our silence to allow others to
believe that this is acceptable or normal behavior. America may be
basically
self correcting, but it will not be self correcting if we just stand by
and
let things like this happen. Ridicule, scorn, protest, or whatever other
activities that you can do to register that this incident is wrong, we
don't
want any more incidents like this, and that we don't want to go any
further
down this road are entirely appropriate.

Well said, CJ. I'm pleased to find a point on which you and I are in full
agreement. :-)

--Gary

in article , Jeb at
wrote on 1/10/04 10:35 AM:


So alarmed was the Staples clerk at the prospect of the ten year old
learning to fly, that he informed the police, the Greenfield Recorder
reports.

Well, I think it's a safe bet that I'd be picketing that store about 5
minutes after the cops visited. And if I thought I could get away with it,
I'd beat the **** out of that snoopy clerk. I hate people like that.

Olearcek is a regular Staples customer and schools her son at home.
The Staples manager simply explained that staff were obeying advice.
Shortly before Christmas, the FBI issued a terror alert to beware of
drivers with maps, or reference books.

Yeah, God knows, there are few things more suspicious than a driver with a
map.

At one time it was rare to find US citizens, in the safest and most
prosperous country in the world, jumping at their own shadows. Now we
only note how high.

Just remember to hide your "Information Please" almanac.

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
in article , Jeb at
wrote on 1/10/04 10:35 AM:


So alarmed was the Staples clerk at the prospect of the ten year old
learning to fly, that he informed the police, the Greenfield Recorder
reports.

Well, I think it's a safe bet that I'd be picketing that store about 5
minutes after the cops visited. And if I thought I could get away with it,
I'd beat the **** out of that snoopy clerk. I hate people like that.


As a former cop- and admittedly proud American, I'd like to put this into a
slightly different perspective.

Obviously this Staples incident is distressing IF it really happened-- I
haven't found the supporting docs yet. Assuming the story has veracity,
then what the Hell is wrong with the cops!? It understandable that the
store management and the clerk who likely have little or no training in
security, could consider such an innocuous request as some kind of security
threat. But I ask again. WHAT ABOUT THE COPS!!?

Surely this "security violation" had to go through some sort of chain of
command at the police department before an individual officer was sent to
these folks home. What was THEIR thought process, if any? I find far more
fault with the police in this matter than the Staples store. (Remember
please- NOT a cop hater speaking here.)

Additionally, going to the store to picket or "... beat the **** out of that
snoopy clerk" seems like a ridiculous response. Possibly, a letter of
concern to Staples corporate office, and maybe a similar letter to the
editor of the local newspaper might be more effective. If we are to protect
GA (and all of our other liberties), we must be vigilant but reasonable in
our responses to these incursions away from sanity. Otherwise, we'll never
be able to get enough mainstream support to realize the balance we need
between security and freedom.

Unbridled passion, while useful in certain circumstances g often adds more
heat than light.

I feel better. How about you?

VideoGuy

"Video Guy" gkasten at brick dot net wrote in message
...
If we are to protect
GA (and all of our other liberties), we must be vigilant but reasonable in
our responses to these incursions away from sanity. Otherwise, we'll
never
be able to get enough mainstream support to realize the balance we need
between security and freedom.

OOPS!

That should be "EXcursions away from sanity". Sometimes my brain thinks one
thing, but my fingers type another.

VideoGuy

"Video Guy" gkasten at brick dot net wrote in message
...
|
| As a former cop- and admittedly proud American, I'd like to put this into
a
| slightly different perspective.
|
| Obviously this Staples incident is distressing IF it really happened-- I
| haven't found the supporting docs yet.

http://www.recorder.com/Headlines/tuesday_basic.htm

At least the "Greenfield Recorder" really did print a story like that. The
story by Andrew Orlowski in Las Vegas left out some things and
sensationalized it a bit, but the general facts appear to be the same. The
story was also picked up by "The Register" and several other papers around
the country. Orlowski's version appears to be the version that is most
widely reproduced.