Clearwater FL mid air; one fatality

Cool. I thought I was the only one who thought that.

"Enefesdi Varspooli Bhootpalamdi"
you, sir, are an idiot.

I concur.

"Enefesdi Varspooli Bhootpalamdi" you, sir, are an idiot.

Newps wrote:
Again flawed reasoning. Nobody that is all alone
in the pattern flies a 7 minute pattern.

A Lieberman wrote:
Actually, to me a 7 minute pattern sounds
reasonable IF a person runs a 1000 foot AGL
pattern in a typical Cessna [snip]

Flying a Cessna 150, my patterns vary between 6 and 9 minutes -- 800' TPA,
varying wind and weight, alone and/or with others in the pattern. Am I doing
something wrong?

--Shirley

Newps wrote:

Again flawed reasoning. Nobody that is all alone in the pattern flies a
7 minute pattern.

Actually, to me a 7 minute pattern sounds reasonable IF a person runs a
1000 foot AGL pattern in a typical Cessna as follows in a touch and go
in a no wind situation. (numbers would be approximate based on my
experiences)

Climbout 1 1/2 minutes (climb to 800 AGL at 500 feet per minute)
Crosswind 1/4 minute (climb to 900 AGL)
Downwind (Climb to 1000 AGL, level off, pick up speed) 3/4 minute
Abeam the numbers (throttle back start descent) 1/2 minute
Base 1/4 minute
Final 3/4 minute
Touchdown to clearing the length of the runway and getting back to 800
AGL (assuming 4500 foot runway or so) 2 minutes.

The above adds up to 6 minutes. Add in a little wind, and the headwind
component would add time to the leg that is in the headwind (crosswind,
base or final).

Now throw in a 800 foot pattern, then maybe knock off a minute, but I
don't run 800 foot patterns that I have seen others do. All airports I
have been had 1000 TPA

Looking at my log book, the above would consistent for when I did 10
touch and goes in 1.3 hours.

Allen

Shirley wrote:

Flying a Cessna 150, my patterns vary between 6 and 9 minutes -- 800' TPA,
varying wind and weight, alone and/or with others in the pattern. Am I doing
something wrong?

Probably not. Looking at my first logbook, it appears that I was fairly consistently
doing about 10 T&Ls in an hour in a rental 150. Our pattern altitude was 1,000' AGL,
and I didn't usually do T&Gs.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

Shirley wrote:

Newps wrote:
Again flawed reasoning. Nobody that is all alone
in the pattern flies a 7 minute pattern.

A Lieberman wrote:
Actually, to me a 7 minute pattern sounds
reasonable IF a person runs a 1000 foot AGL
pattern in a typical Cessna [snip]

Flying a Cessna 150, my patterns vary between 6 and 9 minutes -- 800' TPA,
varying wind and weight, alone and/or with others in the pattern. Am I doing
something wrong?

Hi Shirley,

Never flew a 150 or 152, but expecting the 150 to be slower then a 172
which I trained in, I would think you are dong it perfectly normal.

Allen

--Shirley

"Newps" wrote in message
news:51GOb.81209$sv6.190650@attbi_s52...


gatorcog wrote:
I didn't hit the bonanza precisely because I did see and avoid him. I
call
all my positions and listen for others, too.

Don't call every position, it's unnecessary and annoying. For example
if you are alone in the pattern then one call per pattern, midfield
downwind, is all you need. If the pattern is really busy and you are
following the same guy then same deal, one call midfield. If somebody
is nearing the airport and will be joining the pattern then more calls
make sense. We have a college flight school that trains at an airport
11 SW of here and with three in the pattern you'd think it was O'Hare.
It is a constant nonstop barrage of totally useless traffic calls. Fer
Christ sakes they are making a call when they taxi from the ramp to the
runway.

Agree with the last part. When it's busy, there's not much advantage in
calling every position. But, I've thought that I've been alone a couple
times when I wasn't. So I tend to make more calls when I think I'm alone.

le moo

wrote in message
news

So if the pilot uttering that request (despite it not being
recommended by the Advisory Circular) receives no reply, is he to
erroneously believe that he is alone in the pattern?

I was very clear on that point.

What of the
NORDO aircraft that is incapable of radio communication, or the pilot
who chooses not to respond to such a nonstandard radio broadcast?

The former will not respond, though may have the ability to receive such
transmissions; the latter need only provide the calls specified in the AIM
to satisfy the request.

I agree that the 10 mile announcement serves attention to the lonely pattern
flyer that now would be a good time to start talking, so the extra
"...please advise" words are unnecessary.


Just make the self announced position report broadcasts as the AC
suggests:

or as set forth in the AIM, which "contains _the fundamentals required in
order to fly in the United States NAS_.

Paul Sengupta wrote:
"Gerald Sylvester" wrote in message
link.net...

Also as they say, there is a reason why you have two ears (and
two eyes) and one mouth.
For flying?

yes but only for flying.



gerald

Allen

You guys are pussies G

Used to pitch off the deck at 250+ MPH. Hard pull up in climbing turn
with throttle going to idle and drop gear and flaps when airspeed
below limit speed. Continue turn down to final and touch down under 30
seconds with that Merlin poppety popping all the way. G

Big John
Pilot ROCAF


On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:04:06 -0800, A Lieberman
wrote:

Newps wrote:

Again flawed reasoning. Nobody that is all alone in the pattern flies a
7 minute pattern.

Actually, to me a 7 minute pattern sounds reasonable IF a person runs a
1000 foot AGL pattern in a typical Cessna as follows in a touch and go
in a no wind situation. (numbers would be approximate based on my
experiences)

Climbout 1 1/2 minutes (climb to 800 AGL at 500 feet per minute)
Crosswind 1/4 minute (climb to 900 AGL)
Downwind (Climb to 1000 AGL, level off, pick up speed) 3/4 minute
Abeam the numbers (throttle back start descent) 1/2 minute
Base 1/4 minute
Final 3/4 minute
Touchdown to clearing the length of the runway and getting back to 800
AGL (assuming 4500 foot runway or so) 2 minutes.

The above adds up to 6 minutes. Add in a little wind, and the headwind
component would add time to the leg that is in the headwind (crosswind,
base or final).

Now throw in a 800 foot pattern, then maybe knock off a minute, but I
don't run 800 foot patterns that I have seen others do. All airports I
have been had 1000 TPA

Looking at my log book, the above would consistent for when I did 10
touch and goes in 1.3 hours.

Allen