Logging time as safety pilot?

On 02 Feb 2004 13:20:16 GMT, (Teacherjh) wrote:

I would take that omission to mean that to act as safety pilot and not PIC one
does not need those endorsements.

Exactly.

When the regs state "category and class" that is exactly what they mean.
So, for example, if your certificate reads Airplane, Single Engine Land,
and you have a current medical, and you've never flown anything other than
a Cessna 150, you could still act as a safety pilot in any Single Engine
Land a/c that does not require a type rating. And you could log SIC time.




Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

My response is not crossposted as the intial post was, as crossposting
is evil and wrong.

a) I logged a flight where I was safety pilot for a guy getting IFR
current, as PIC time, two or three years ago. However, my ego and/or
conscience won't let me do it again, and were it not so far back in my
logbook as to be really ugly to reverse it, I'd do it. I now think it's
a lame way to log PIC time. It's great experience, and a great help to
the other fellow, but not loggable in (my) good conscience.

b) in my (log)book, Second in Command time is worthless. What's it good
for, really?

Disclaimer: I'm hungry for PIC hours, as I have aspirations to be a
commercial pilot, in order to fulfill my mid-life-crisis-founded need
for an eventual career change. But, safety pilot time doesn't cut the
mustard for me.

Dave Blevins

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 02:31:21 GMT, "CFLav8r"
wrote:

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)

wrote

b) in my (log)book, Second in Command time is worthless. What's it good
for, really?

I make the following comments based on my experience as Chief-pilot
for three Part 121 aircarriers and Director of Operations for another.
In these positions, I was responsible for the employment of flightcrew
members for the respective aircarrier.

I observed the poorest performance from an individual with no logged
SIC time. He had several thousand hours of light twin time in single
pilot operations. He had received no training nor experience in two
of the most basic principles of commercial aircarrier flightcrew
operations, "the crew concept" and "cockpit resource management".
Time spent as a SIC without doubt improves one's performance as a PIC
in commercial multi-pilot operations.


From my personal experience, when, just back from Vietnam, I was employed
by Pan American Airways, along with numerous other "just released"
military pilots, it was very obvious that the single-seat "top-guns" did
not progress through training nearly as well as did many of the multi-
engine pilots who, because of their senority, had not progressed beyond
SIC status while on active duty. Commercial flight operations require
much less in terms of being a "good stick" and a lot more in being a "team
player".

SIC time DOES count!

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)
Air Florida (former DO)

b) in my (log)book, Second in Command time is worthless. What's it good
for, really?

Disclaimer: I'm hungry for PIC hours, as I have aspirations to be a
commercial pilot, in order to fulfill my mid-life-crisis-founded need
for an eventual career change. But, safety pilot time doesn't cut the
mustard for me.
--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

b) in my (log)book, Second in Command time is worthless. What's it good
for, really?

Disclaimer: I'm hungry for PIC hours, as I have aspirations to be a
commercial pilot.


(oops, hit the wrong button a moment ago)

I have read that companies hiring commercial pilots often like to see SIC time,
as it demonstrates cockpit management experience. Safety Pilot time does
involve some of that. I'd say SIC time is valuable for those pursuing a
commercial flying career (though I am not myself a commercial pilot)

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 14:13:32 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:

wrote

b) in my (log)book, Second in Command time is worthless. What's it good
for, really?

I make the following comments based on my experience as Chief-pilot
for three Part 121 aircarriers and Director of Operations for another.
In these positions, I was responsible for the employment of flightcrew
members for the respective aircarrier.

I observed the poorest performance from an individual with no logged
SIC time. He had several thousand hours of light twin time in single
pilot operations. He had received no training nor experience in two
of the most basic principles of commercial aircarrier flightcrew
operations, "the crew concept" and "cockpit resource management".
Time spent as a SIC without doubt improves one's performance as a PIC
in commercial multi-pilot operations.


From my personal experience, when, just back from Vietnam, I was employed
by Pan American Airways, along with numerous other "just released"
military pilots, it was very obvious that the single-seat "top-guns" did
not progress through training nearly as well as did many of the multi-
engine pilots who, because of their senority, had not progressed beyond
SIC status while on active duty. Commercial flight operations require
much less in terms of being a "good stick" and a lot more in being a "team
player".

SIC time DOES count!

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)
Air Florida (former DO)

ok I'll buy that.

hmmm I wonder if all the "here take the controls ...see what this
does, see what this does, see what that does, now notice that to make
a level turn you need to use a bit of each, aileron to incline the
lift vector, rudder to counter the adverse yaw, now some elevator to
counter the loss of lift...." should be logged as instructor time :-)
when flying the kids and wives.

nah, pic tacho time in a tailwind has that english sense of
understatement that I like. :-)
Stealth Pilot
Australia

Stealth Pilot wrote:

log the important hours, not the useless stuff.

I'd recommend logging the time. If nothing else, this provides a backup to
the entry in your friend's log. It may also be something you ask later:
when have I been a safety pilot, and for whom?

This is one of the things I learned while diving: logging is as much for the
fun of it as for the tracking of numbers and such.

just be happy in the thought that one of your mates thought enough of
you to invite you along. you might need the same assistance at the
other end of your flying life yourself.

Sigh I know what you mean. I remember a rental checkout once with a CFI
that had lost her medical (for a very serious and ongoing problem,
unfortunately, esp. given that she was barely half my age). I was happy to
be part of the team keeping her in the air. I think I may actually have
rented there only once, but that's the checkout that's still most with me.

A CFI friend recently lost his medical. I need to check on what I can do
with him (dual commercial XCs, perhaps), and I'm sure I'm not the only one
with this plan in mind.

- Andrew