Denver Terminal Area Chart Question - BVR vor/dme

Crap... all this discussion about trying to find out what radial to fly..

1) draw the dang line on the chart.. through your VOR if you must "fly the
radial"
2) plant your trusty plotter on the line and measure the TC heading to fly..
3) look at the magnetic variation lines and apply the correction
accordingly..
4) go fly...

enough already
BT

"Robert Easton" wrote in message
...
Does anybody know why on the Denver Terminal Area Chart, the Byers (BVR
113.5) vor/dme facility is charted without the compass ring that are on
most
vortacs? It's the only one I've seen charted like this. Byers is located
33NM on the 090 radial of DVV (the Denver International Vortac).

Thanks, Robert

Crap... all this discussion about trying to find out what radial to fly..

1) draw the dang line on the chart.. through your VOR if you must "fly the
radial"
2) plant your trusty plotter on the line and measure the TC heading to
fly..
3) look at the magnetic variation lines and apply the correction
accordingly..
4) go fly...

But, as I said in the original post, the VORs in this area have not been
adjusted for years now, and the declination used in them is not the same as
the magnetic variation lines on any current charts. Thus the radial setting
is not the same as the magnetic course, and is not the same as the true
course. They are somewhere in the middle.

Geoffrey Barnes wrote:

But, as I said in the original post, the VORs in this area have not been
adjusted for years now, and the declination used in them is not the same as
the magnetic variation lines on any current charts.

And as I said in my post, it won't be off enough to matter.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

Thanks George...

after 30 years of flying.. TLAR navigation still works.. even with 20 yrs of
that in high speed military aircraft.. you refine it as you get closer...

BT

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Geoffrey Barnes wrote:

But, as I said in the original post, the VORs in this area have not been
adjusted for years now, and the declination used in them is not the same
as
the magnetic variation lines on any current charts.

And as I said in my post, it won't be off enough to matter.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is
curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the
circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but
more
often to the physician than to the patient.

and for this chap.. do you honestly think that 2 or 3 degrees is going to
make a difference?? what ever happened to pilotage
BT

"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in message
ink.net...
Crap... all this discussion about trying to find out what radial to
fly..

1) draw the dang line on the chart.. through your VOR if you must "fly
the
radial"
2) plant your trusty plotter on the line and measure the TC heading to
fly..
3) look at the magnetic variation lines and apply the correction
accordingly..
4) go fly...

But, as I said in the original post, the VORs in this area have not been
adjusted for years now, and the declination used in them is not the same
as
the magnetic variation lines on any current charts. Thus the radial
setting
is not the same as the magnetic course, and is not the same as the true
course. They are somewhere in the middle.

and for this chap.. do you honestly think that 2 or 3 degrees is going to
make a difference?? what ever happened to pilotage

.... sigh...

I'm a student pilot, for crying out loud! I have no idea if 2 or 3 degress
will make a difference. Over a long distance, I suppose it could, but I
really don't have enough experience to know. I'm just trying to learn
something here. That's why I asked the question.

Little did I suspect that I would get jumped on for doing so. Just how on
earth is anyone supposed to learn if they get told off and insulted just for
asking a question? Jeez! The strange thing is that I always have enjoyed
reading the replies you make to other people, and I've even learned a few
things from you in doing so. I really expected better from you, mate. You
disappoint me.

I'm guessing from your reply that it really wouldn't make that much of a
difference. Surely you could have told me that without throwing in a few
destructive comments on my lack of pilotage skills. For the record, my
pilotage skills probably suck. I'm working on them, just like I'm working
on crosswind landingings, steep turns, and everything else. But just like
all my other skills, they probably suck. I already knew that, but thanks
ever so much for confirming it.

:: wanders off, mumbling something about the dismal future of general
aviation, and the uselessness of usenet ::

Geoffrey, cool it old chap...
OK, as a student lets talk about degrees... A pilotage trick is in knowing
that if you change the angle by one degree, lets say to the left, you will
be left of your desired track by 1 nm after you fly 60 nm.. (1 in 60 rule)
If it is 2 degrees then you will be off to the left by 2 nm...
And with shorter distances for a 2 degree change, you will be to the left by
1 nm in half the distance (30 miles) and left of track by a half nm in 15
miles... So if a B airspace is 30 nm across and you start out with a 2
degree error you will be off your desired track by one half mile when you
reach the center... Unless the vfr tunnel is very narow, wind drift will be
a bigger factor than heading error...

This rule comes from hundreds of years of ship navigation... Do a google on
the term "navigation 1 in 60 rule" and you should get hundreds of hits...
See, not that difficult to visualize once you have some numbers to go by...
denny
"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in ... sigh...

I'm a student pilot, for crying out loud! I have no idea if 2 or 3
degress
will make a difference.

Geoffrey Barnes wrote:

I have no idea if 2 or 3 degress will make a difference.

Did you manage to get out of high school? Do you remember any of the math they
were supposed to teach you? You can use simple math to determine that your deviation
in a 20 mile leg is about 1/4 mile for each degree of variation from the proper
heading.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.