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On 4/3/2013 10:12 PM, Ramy wrote:
So Bob, I must ask, do you fly XC without cell phone?

I did until the end of 2009, when I (temporarily?) "retired" from active
PIC-ing. Should I unretire, I don't plan to change this particular approach.

If so, whatever will
be your good reasons to never carry a cell phone, I wouldn't blame anyone
who will leave you to hitchhike back from a landout in the middle of
nowhere...

Nor would I blame anyone for declining to retrieve me...whether or not I had a
cell phone. :-) Seriously, I *have* hitchhiked back (though long ago). I've
also dodged being out overnight by about 45 seconds and a bit of luck (last
vehicle - between then and buttoning up the glider/trailer - to go by the
stretch of road on which I was walking to an [abandoned, in the event]
farmhouse two miles away). I once found a (working!) phone on a rotating hatch
in a quonset hut hangar at an (essentially) abandoned-for-the-weekend airport
several miles from town on an evening with winds strong enough to cause a
blowing-dust-induced fatal "fog-collision chain-reaction" accident on an
interstate not terribly distant from my landing site...and nearly got
hypothermia on a 90+-degree evening from wind chill that same evening. I've
had a "Twilight Zone" experience while begging use of a phone at the nearest -
& only - house between me and my launch airport a mere 10 or so road miles
distant.

I considered these - and all my other - mini-adventures part of the "charm of
the soaring/landout experience." In fact, some of my most rapid ascents of the
XC learning curve came while in remote fields, waiting for (with one
exception) my pickup crew; only once did I ever set out with a
pre-arranged/formal crew. Of course, I've also retrieved many more folks than
I've had to impose upon others, which may or may not have helped me recruit
those ad-hoc crews. Retrievals, too, were always (generally, wry chuckle)
great and grand fun.


Some technologies, like cell phone and spot are a must in anyone's landout
kit. Flying cross country without them is foolish.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I've retrieved with the aid of Spot
& GPS-es...and in those cases never set out without having a pretty decent
written description of how to get to "wherever"...just like in the days before
those technologies existed. Simple prudence, from my perspective.

I've also been at the field when a pilot failed to return (more than one,
sadly) in pre-Spot days. In only one case would Spot have saved much
time...and in that one the PIC (fortunately?) happened to have been killed on
impact; we found him around 10AM the next day.

As for cell phones, while my soaring experience doesn't include your
particular neck of the woods (eastern Sierras, Great Basin, etc.) it *does*
include much of the eastern Rockies and neighboring Great Plains...which are
well known for - um, "spotty" cell phone coverage. IOW, the reality for my
neck of the woods is cell phones are far from a panacea. Personally, I prefer
the aggravation of the known devil (i.e. fending for myself with ground-based
technologies - feet, landlines, etc.) to the dodgy, irritating (when they work
poorly or not at all) unknown ones of dropped/scratchy/one-sided/etc. cell
phone calls, which mostly serve to raise both parties' blood pressures due to
the aggravation of failed promise.

From my perspective, those devices and technologies do indeed have
"convenience potential" and arguably "life-saving potential" but they are no
substitute for pilot prudence, common sense, "adequate preparation
beforehand," etc. In life-threatening terms, I never worried about my friends
when they were out XC soaring, any more than I worried about myself when I was
out XC soaring. Have I encountered soaring pilots I DO actively worry about
(independent of the technology they bring to the table)? Darn tootin'! But in
every case their technology had/has essentially nothing to do with my worry
(I'll resist the obvious snarky comment about any tendency they might have had
to inappropriately use such technology...as in, making a phone call *before*
they've actually landed out).

Obviously, YMMV!

Bob - lemme write your retrieval directions down - W.

On Thursday, April 4, 2013 9:54:04 AM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
On 4/3/2013 10:12 PM, Ramy wrote: So Bob, I must ask, do you fly XC without cell phone? I did until the end of 2009, when I (temporarily?) "retired" from active PIC-ing. Should I unretire, I don't plan to change this particular approach. If so, whatever will be your good reasons to never carry a cell phone, I wouldn't blame anyone who will leave you to hitchhike back from a landout in the middle of nowhere... Nor would I blame anyone for declining to retrieve me...whether or not I had a cell phone. :-) Seriously, I *have* hitchhiked back (though long ago). I've also dodged being out overnight by about 45 seconds and a bit of luck (last vehicle - between then and buttoning up the glider/trailer - to go by the stretch of road on which I was walking to an [abandoned, in the event] farmhouse two miles away). I once found a (working!) phone on a rotating hatch in a quonset hut hangar at an (essentially) abandoned-for-the-weekend airport several miles from town on an evening with winds strong enough to cause a blowing-dust-induced fatal "fog-collision chain-reaction" accident on an interstate not terribly distant from my landing site...and nearly got hypothermia on a 90+-degree evening from wind chill that same evening. I've had a "Twilight Zone" experience while begging use of a phone at the nearest - & only - house between me and my launch airport a mere 10 or so road miles distant. I considered these - and all my other - mini-adventures part of the "charm of the soaring/landout experience." In fact, some of my most rapid ascents of the XC learning curve came while in remote fields, waiting for (with one exception) my pickup crew; only once did I ever set out with a pre-arranged/formal crew. Of course, I've also retrieved many more folks than I've had to impose upon others, which may or may not have helped me recruit those ad-hoc crews.. Retrievals, too, were always (generally, wry chuckle) great and grand fun.. Some technologies, like cell phone and spot are a must in anyone's landout kit. Flying cross country without them is foolish. We're going to have to agree to disagree. I've retrieved with the aid of Spot & GPS-es...and in those cases never set out without having a pretty decent written description of how to get to "wherever"...just like in the days before those technologies existed. Simple prudence, from my perspective. I've also been at the field when a pilot failed to return (more than one, sadly) in pre-Spot days. In only one case would Spot have saved much time...and in that one the PIC (fortunately?) happened to have been killed on impact; we found him around 10AM the next day. As for cell phones, while my soaring experience doesn't include your particular neck of the woods (eastern Sierras, Great Basin, etc.) it *does* include much of the eastern Rockies and neighboring Great Plains...which are well known for - um, "spotty" cell phone coverage. IOW, the reality for my neck of the woods is cell phones are far from a panacea. Personally, I prefer the aggravation of the known devil (i.e. fending for myself with ground-based technologies - feet, landlines, etc.) to the dodgy, irritating (when they work poorly or not at all) unknown ones of dropped/scratchy/one-sided/etc. cell phone calls, which mostly serve to raise both parties' blood pressures due to the aggravation of failed promise. From my perspective, those devices and technologies do indeed have "convenience potential" and arguably "life-saving potential" but they are no substitute for pilot prudence, common sense, "adequate preparation beforehand," etc. In life-threatening terms, I never worried about my friends when they were out XC soaring, any more than I worried about myself when I was out XC soaring. Have I encountered soaring pilots I DO actively worry about (independent of the technology they bring to the table)? Darn tootin'! But in every case their technology had/has essentially nothing to do with my worry (I'll resist the obvious snarky comment about any tendency they might have had to inappropriately use such technology...as in, making a phone call *before* they've actually landed out). Obviously, YMMV! Bob - lemme write your retrieval directions down - W.

Personal experience getting retrieved by Bob.

I flew 237 miles downwind and within 30 minutes Bob arrived at the airport. There was no intelligible 2 way communication between the two of us for at least the last 1:00 or 1:30 of the flight. Occasionally he would hear a garble from me (when I was at the top of a thermal) and occasionally I would hear a garble from him (when he was cresting a hill and I happened to be high). I didn't call him after landing since he doesn't have a cell phone. I did call our pre-arranged call-back number but of course he didn't call them because he hadn't stopped yet.

Read more about it in the Feb. 2012 Soaring

Tony - Bob can crew for me anytime - C.

I flew XC for years before getting a cell phone. When I landed out, I just
knocked on the farmer's door and asked to use the phone. Never had a
problem and the farmer and family usually enjoyed looking at the glider.

I now have a cell phone but it stays turned off unless I want to make a
call. Oh, and it's only a phone - it doesn't do all those other distracting
things that today's youngsters seem to need to stay alive.

There's an entire episode of the TV show, Southpark, which is devoted to
Facebook. I thought it gave an apt description of Facebook addicts.


"Ramy" wrote in message
...
So Bob, I must ask, do you fly XC without cell phone? If so, whatever will
be your good reasons to never carry a cell phone, I wouldn't blame anyone
who will leave you to hitchhike back from a landout in the middle of
nowhere...

Some technologies, like cell phone and spot are a must in anyone's landout
kit. Flying cross country without them is foolish.

Ramy

On Thursday, April 4, 2013 10:15:33 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
I flew XC for years before getting a cell phone. When I landed out, I just knocked on the farmer's door and asked to use the phone. Never had a problem and the farmer and family usually enjoyed looking at the glider. I now have a cell phone but it stays turned off unless I want to make a call. Oh, and it's only a phone - it doesn't do all those other distracting things that today's youngsters seem to need to stay alive. There's an entire episode of the TV show, Southpark, which is devoted to Facebook. I thought it gave an apt description of Facebook addicts. "Ramy" wrote in message ... So Bob, I must ask, do you fly XC without cell phone? If so, whatever will be your good reasons to never carry a cell phone, I wouldn't blame anyone who will leave you to hitchhike back from a landout in the middle of nowhere... Some technologies, like cell phone and spot are a must in anyone's landout kit. Flying cross country without them is foolish. Ramy

My new smartphone does provide some good post landout entertainment. For example last weekend my crew saw the picture of the glider in the field on Facebook before they left the field to come get me, and by the time they got there I had had about a 20 comment exchange with various glider pilots around the country debating the merits of why i landed out and how good or bad the field I chose was.

Different strokes, I suppose.

I always enjoyed sitting on the farmer's porch enjoying local conversation
and some of his beer. Later, when my impromptu crew would arrive, I'd share
my homebrew with the farmer.

I haven't landed out in a long time. Maybe I should plan to...


"Tony" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, April 4, 2013 10:15:33 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
I flew XC for years before getting a cell phone. When I landed out, I just
knocked on the farmer's door and asked to use the phone. Never had a
problem and the farmer and family usually enjoyed looking at the glider. I
now have a cell phone but it stays turned off unless I want to make a
call. Oh, and it's only a phone - it doesn't do all those other
distracting things that today's youngsters seem to need to stay alive.
There's an entire episode of the TV show, Southpark, which is devoted to
Facebook. I thought it gave an apt description of Facebook addicts. "Ramy"
wrote in message
... So Bob, I
must ask, do you fly XC without cell phone? If so, whatever will be your
good reasons to never carry a cell phone, I wouldn't blame anyone who
will leave you to hitchhike back from a landout in the middle of
nowhere... Some technologies, like cell phone and spot are a must in
anyone's landout kit. Flying cross country without them is foolish.
Ramy

My new smartphone does provide some good post landout entertainment. For
example last weekend my crew saw the picture of the glider in the field on
Facebook before they left the field to come get me, and by the time they got
there I had had about a 20 comment exchange with various glider pilots
around the country debating the merits of why i landed out and how good or
bad the field I chose was.

On Thursday, April 4, 2013 10:31:33 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Different strokes, I suppose. I always enjoyed sitting on the farmer's porch enjoying local conversation and some of his beer. Later, when my impromptu crew would arrive, I'd share my homebrew with the farmer. I haven't landed out in a long time. Maybe I should plan to... "Tony" wrote in message ... On Thursday, April 4, 2013 10:15:33 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote: I flew XC for years before getting a cell phone. When I landed out, I just knocked on the farmer's door and asked to use the phone. Never had a problem and the farmer and family usually enjoyed looking at the glider. I now have a cell phone but it stays turned off unless I want to make a call.. Oh, and it's only a phone - it doesn't do all those other distracting things that today's youngsters seem to need to stay alive. There's an entire episode of the TV show, Southpark, which is devoted to Facebook. I thought it gave an apt description of Facebook addicts. "Ramy" wrote in message ... So Bob, I must ask, do you fly XC without cell phone? If so, whatever will be your good reasons to never carry a cell phone, I wouldn't blame anyone who will leave you to hitchhike back from a landout in the middle of nowhere... Some technologies, like cell phone and spot are a must in anyone's landout kit. Flying cross country without them is foolish. Ramy My new smartphone does provide some good post landout entertainment. For example last weekend my crew saw the picture of the glider in the field on Facebook before they left the field to come get me, and by the time they got there I had had about a 20 comment exchange with various glider pilots around the country debating the merits of why i landed out and how good or bad the field I chose was.

Oh I definitely enjoy meeting the farmers, if they are within walking distance of wherever I land. That doesn't always happen. Fewer and fewer people are farming more and more acres these days. Population Density in Western Kansas is probably less than 1 person per square miles.

150 likes 3900 views.

On Thursday, April 4, 2013 8:31:33 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Different strokes, I suppose.



I always enjoyed sitting on the farmer's porch enjoying local conversation

and some of his beer. Later, when my impromptu crew would arrive, I'd share

my homebrew with the farmer.



I haven't landed out in a long time. Maybe I should plan to...





"Tony" wrote in message

...

On Thursday, April 4, 2013 10:15:33 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:

I flew XC for years before getting a cell phone. When I landed out, I just

knocked on the farmer's door and asked to use the phone. Never had a

problem and the farmer and family usually enjoyed looking at the glider.. I

now have a cell phone but it stays turned off unless I want to make a

call. Oh, and it's only a phone - it doesn't do all those other

distracting things that today's youngsters seem to need to stay alive.

There's an entire episode of the TV show, Southpark, which is devoted to

Facebook. I thought it gave an apt description of Facebook addicts. "Ramy"

wrote in message

... So Bob, I

must ask, do you fly XC without cell phone? If so, whatever will be your

good reasons to never carry a cell phone, I wouldn't blame anyone who

will leave you to hitchhike back from a landout in the middle of

nowhere... Some technologies, like cell phone and spot are a must in

anyone's landout kit. Flying cross country without them is foolish.

Ramy



My new smartphone does provide some good post landout entertainment. For

example last weekend my crew saw the picture of the glider in the field on

Facebook before they left the field to come get me, and by the time they got

there I had had about a 20 comment exchange with various glider pilots

around the country debating the merits of why i landed out and how good or

bad the field I chose was.

All good points, and I had my share of the same experiences and adventures as you folks described, but the main point is that having technology like cell phone and spot provides you *additional* options that you don't otherwise have, and chances are that in some situations you or your crew would wish you had...
I also been at the airport when someone did not return, but unfortunately he did not carry spot, and although he also apparently died on impact, it took 3 days to find him, during which a TFR was set over the area and we spent 3 days looking for him.
My cell phone worked well in almost every landout I had, even in remote areas, and significantly simplified my retrievals.

Ramy

New Mexico is pretty sparsely populated and I DO carry my phone. Coverage
is pretty spotty, however, unless you're near a major highway...

"Ramy" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, April 4, 2013 8:31:33 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Different strokes, I suppose.



I always enjoyed sitting on the farmer's porch enjoying local conversation

and some of his beer. Later, when my impromptu crew would arrive, I'd
share

my homebrew with the farmer.



I haven't landed out in a long time. Maybe I should plan to...





"Tony" wrote in message

...

On Thursday, April 4, 2013 10:15:33 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:

I flew XC for years before getting a cell phone. When I landed out, I
just

knocked on the farmer's door and asked to use the phone. Never had a

problem and the farmer and family usually enjoyed looking at the glider.
I

now have a cell phone but it stays turned off unless I want to make a

call. Oh, and it's only a phone - it doesn't do all those other

distracting things that today's youngsters seem to need to stay alive.

There's an entire episode of the TV show, Southpark, which is devoted to

Facebook. I thought it gave an apt description of Facebook addicts.
"Ramy"

wrote in message

... So Bob,
I

must ask, do you fly XC without cell phone? If so, whatever will be
your

good reasons to never carry a cell phone, I wouldn't blame anyone who

will leave you to hitchhike back from a landout in the middle of

nowhere... Some technologies, like cell phone and spot are a must in

anyone's landout kit. Flying cross country without them is foolish.


Ramy



My new smartphone does provide some good post landout entertainment. For

example last weekend my crew saw the picture of the glider in the field on

Facebook before they left the field to come get me, and by the time they
got

there I had had about a 20 comment exchange with various glider pilots

around the country debating the merits of why i landed out and how good or

bad the field I chose was.

All good points, and I had my share of the same experiences and adventures
as you folks described, but the main point is that having technology like
cell phone and spot provides you *additional* options that you don't
otherwise have, and chances are that in some situations you or your crew
would wish you had...
I also been at the airport when someone did not return, but unfortunately he
did not carry spot, and although he also apparently died on impact, it took
3 days to find him, during which a TFR was set over the area and we spent 3
days looking for him.
My cell phone worked well in almost every landout I had, even in remote
areas, and significantly simplified my retrievals.

Ramy

On 5/04/2013 02:35, Tony wrote:

Oh I definitely enjoy meeting the farmers, if they are within
walking distance of wherever I land. That doesn't always happen.
Fewer and fewer people are farming more and more acres these days.
Population Density in Western Kansas is probably less than 1 person
per square miles.

Same in Australia. SOP is to check the farmhouse you're planning to
land near for:
1. Power lines to the house (two reasons for this)
2. Laundry hanging out.
3. Fresh tyre tracks into the garage/shed/barn.
4. The garden/grass looks watered.

Only about 1 in 3 is inhabited these days.

GC