TA

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:25:18 AM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
Perhaps experienced mountain pilots would write about how they would approach an unfamiliar ridge below the top in gusty conditions. I wonder about angle of approach, speed, when you would pull up, how close you would get on the first approach, etc.

Google Don't smack the mountain-101 and click on DG Flugzeugbau to read my take on 5 unexplained mountain accidents. I also misused the S turn term, when I meant figure 8.
Cheers,
JJ

On 6/25/2013 1:25 AM, waremark wrote:
Perhaps experienced mountain pilots would write about how they would
approach an unfamiliar ridge below the top in gusty conditions. I wonder
about angle of approach, speed, when you would pull up, how close you would
get on the first approach, etc.


My intermountain west close-to-the-rocks (USA) education began along the
"Flatirons" immediately west of Boulder (CO), and the early part of it was
from above the ridge, as distinct from equal to/below the top. All of it was
tentative, and always with the obvious dump-out away from the ridge to regain
clearance from it.

Over time, and flying from different sites and to different areas, I began to
encounter the need to approach new ridges from below peak/ridge top levels.
"Cautiously" was key.

If on tow - meaning, without previous "local air experiences" other than the
tow itself - I was mentally primed to pull the plug and implement my escape
plan if the tug encountered anything seriously worrisome to me. I considered
myself cowardly, but with the tenacity of someone wishing/needing to soar
until the day quit.

Presuming I hung on until I felt I could remain aloft, I'd sidle (at a shallow
approach angle) toward/along the ridge seeking a feel for conditions, winds,
upwellings, possible thermals, etc., with extra speed in hand for good aileron
control and as guard against wind shear from strong, narrow thermals (not
uncommon below [steep] ridge top on any thermic day). The shallow approach
angle reduced the "turn-away angle" required for escape and simultaneously
provides some feel for the horizontal depth of the micro-convective field of
the ridge.

Did the same thing when approaching ridges on XC's, in which cases I was
usually more interested in bumping along - as distinct from rolling into a
(usually tiny-cored) thermal - until I could bump my way to atop the ridge in
straight flight, or, the end of it forced a turn-around for a pass in the
opposite direction. Multiple passes were commonly needed before I either got
high enough to tap into thermals disconnecting from the spine, or a
"sufficiently large/strong thermal in a suitably benign locale" warranted
thermalling below ridgetop. Success wasn't a given, of course.

As to closeness to the ridge, the more thermic the day/time, the farther away
(contrasted, say, to evening conditions) my initial passes would be. "Sticking
a wingtip into the rocks" wasn't anything I'd do on strongly thermic days,
because of risk and lack of potential rewards (in my assessment) in the
Colorado/New Mexico mountains. If "bumping along with cautious acceptable
clearance" didn't work, there likely weren't sufficiently organized
"squirters" closer to the rocks.

When above the ridge spine, but "vertically close to it" (in my estimation) I
was prepared/primed to thermal to an altitude permitting straight ahead
cruising or whatever circumstances suggested was in my future. That said, I
never "mentally relaxed" (with respect to the dangers posed by hitting the
rocks) until sufficient clearance was in hand to "no-brainerly recover" from
an upset.

Prolixly/YMMV,
Bob W.

I fly a lot further away from rocks than I used to after a couple of sobering experiences with thermals. In thirty years of soaring, I've had a couple of frights, but a few years ago I got unceremoniously tossed out of the side of a thermal. I apparently flew into the rolling outflow that was strong enough to kill all my air speed (my yaw string reversed!) and my glider fell out of the sky until I gained enough airspeed to recover. That took several hundred feet of altitude and if I'd been close to a ridge I would have been eating rocks.

I should perhaps also mention that, after flying at Logan contest for the first time, a couple of experienced pilots decided that the close ridge flying was too risky and they packed up and left. I wasn't too thrilled to have pine needles tickling the belly of my glider either!

The short answer to the poster who asked what our approach to ridge flying is in the west is that most of us don't do it. With all the strong conditions we have, why push your luck on a weak day?

Mike

Mike

There is an excellent guide to safety in mountain flying
published by the CNVV at Saint-Auban.

http://www.cnvv.net/Programme_fr_CNV...stage/theoriqu
e/presentation.pdf/Securit%C3%A9volVSANGLAISE%20ULTIME
%20BD.pdf

John Galloway



At 13:46 25 June 2013, Mike the Strike wrote:
I fly a lot further away from rocks than I used to after a couple
of
soberi=
ng experiences with thermals. In thirty years of soaring, I've
had a
coupl=
e of frights, but a few years ago I got unceremoniously tossed
out of the
s=
ide of a thermal. I apparently flew into the rolling outflow that
was
stro=
ng enough to kill all my air speed (my yaw string reversed!)
and my glider
=
fell out of the sky until I gained enough airspeed to recover.
That took
s=
everal hundred feet of altitude and if I'd been close to a ridge
I would
ha=
ve been eating rocks.

I should perhaps also mention that, after flying at Logan
contest for the
f=
irst time, a couple of experienced pilots decided that the close
ridge
flyi=
ng was too risky and they packed up and left. I wasn't too
thrilled to
hav=
e pine needles tickling the belly of my glider either!

The short answer to the poster who asked what our approach
to ridge flying
=
is in the west is that most of us don't do it. With all the strong
conditi=
ons we have, why push your luck on a weak day?

Mike

Mike

There is an excellent guide to safety in mountain flying
published by the CNVV at Saint-Auban.

http://www.cnvv.net/Programme_fr_CNV...stage/theoriqu
e/presentation.pdf/Securit%C3%A9volVSANGLAISE%20ULTIME
%20BD.pdf

John Galloway



At 13:46 25 June 2013, Mike the Strike wrote:
I fly a lot further away from rocks than I used to after a couple
of
soberi=
ng experiences with thermals. In thirty years of soaring, I've
had a
coupl=
e of frights, but a few years ago I got unceremoniously tossed
out of the
s=
ide of a thermal. I apparently flew into the rolling outflow that
was
stro=
ng enough to kill all my air speed (my yaw string reversed!)
and my glider
=
fell out of the sky until I gained enough airspeed to recover.
That took
s=
everal hundred feet of altitude and if I'd been close to a ridge
I would
ha=
ve been eating rocks.

I should perhaps also mention that, after flying at Logan
contest for the
f=
irst time, a couple of experienced pilots decided that the close
ridge
flyi=
ng was too risky and they packed up and left. I wasn't too
thrilled to
hav=
e pine needles tickling the belly of my glider either!

The short answer to the poster who asked what our approach
to ridge flying
=
is in the west is that most of us don't do it. With all the strong
conditi=
ons we have, why push your luck on a weak day?

Mike

Mike

There is an excellent guide to safety in mountain flying
published by the CNVV at Saint-Auban.

http://www.cnvv.net/Programme_fr_CNV...stage/theoriqu
e/presentation.pdf/Securit%C3%A9volVSANGLAISE%20ULTIME
%20BD.pdf

John Galloway



At 13:46 25 June 2013, Mike the Strike wrote:
I fly a lot further away from rocks than I used to after a couple
of
soberi=
ng experiences with thermals. In thirty years of soaring, I've
had a
coupl=
e of frights, but a few years ago I got unceremoniously tossed
out of the
s=
ide of a thermal. I apparently flew into the rolling outflow that
was
stro=
ng enough to kill all my air speed (my yaw string reversed!)
and my glider
=
fell out of the sky until I gained enough airspeed to recover.
That took
s=
everal hundred feet of altitude and if I'd been close to a ridge
I would
ha=
ve been eating rocks.

I should perhaps also mention that, after flying at Logan
contest for the
f=
irst time, a couple of experienced pilots decided that the close
ridge
flyi=
ng was too risky and they packed up and left. I wasn't too
thrilled to
hav=
e pine needles tickling the belly of my glider either!

The short answer to the poster who asked what our approach
to ridge flying
=
is in the west is that most of us don't do it. With all the strong
conditi=
ons we have, why push your luck on a weak day?

Mike

Mike