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#1
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On Sunday, August 11, 2013 12:10:47 PM UTC-7, Kevin Christner wrote:
We've heard alot of arguments for and against instituting FAI rules in the US. For the record, I lean towards the FAI rules. If we want to win at the world level we ought to be selecting pilots under the same rules system that they will fly in the WC. That being said, the recent Junior Worlds showed a major weakness in the current scoring system. From what I can tell from the Soaring Cafe report, the Dutch Team purposely outlanded to devalue the day, resulting in one of the Dutch pilots winning. First, my congratulations to the Dutch team Captain / Coach for this brilliant insight. I have a feeling this could have gone either way, but way to play one to win. On the other hand, I don't think a scoring system should reward this sort of tactic. And I've heard of (although I can't remember where) pilots finishing straight in, then deciding whether to take a valid finish or the penalty, based on how the points would work out. Chalk this one up as interesting and worth discussion. http://soaringcafe.com/2013/08/2-cou...esnzo-is-over/ 2C Really (FAI vs. US Rules)? Are we doing this again ![]() Seriously, most US pilots have not flown an FAI contest. In that case don’t let those against FAI rules or FAI proponents influence you. Fly an FAI contest and decide for yourself. You’re likely to find no rule set is perfect and claims either way have been exaggerated. However, you may prefer one over the other. Next year you can fly a high level Category One FAI event in Chilhowee. The 1st Pan-American Gliding Championships will be in Tennessee from August 25th to September 7th. Buy or borrow a Club Class Glider. See you there. Sean R Franke http://www.fai.org/igc-events/igc-ev...alendarId=9180 |
#2
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On Monday, August 12, 2013 1:57:32 PM UTC-4, Sean Franke wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2013 12:10:47 PM UTC-7, Kevin Christner wrote: We've heard alot of arguments for and against instituting FAI rules in the US. For the record, I lean towards the FAI rules. If we want to win at the world level we ought to be selecting pilots under the same rules system that they will fly in the WC. That being said, the recent Junior Worlds showed a major weakness in the current scoring system. From what I can tell from the Soaring Cafe report, the Dutch Team purposely outlanded to devalue the day, resulting in one of the Dutch pilots winning. First, my congratulations to the Dutch team Captain / Coach for this brilliant insight. I have a feeling this could have gone either way, but way to play one to win. On the other hand, I don't think a scoring system should reward this sort of tactic. And I've heard of (although I can't remember where) pilots finishing straight in, then deciding whether to take a valid finish or the penalty, based on how the points would work out. Chalk this one up as interesting and worth discussion. http://soaringcafe.com/2013/08/2-cou...esnzo-is-over/ 2C Really (FAI vs. US Rules)? Are we doing this again ![]() Seriously, most US pilots have not flown an FAI contest. In that case don’t let those against FAI rules or FAI proponents influence you. Fly an FAI contest and decide for yourself. You’re likely to find no rule set is perfect and claims either way have been exaggerated. However, you may prefer one over the other. Next year you can fly a high level Category One FAI event in Chilhowee. The 1st Pan-American Gliding Championships will be in Tennessee from August 25th to September 7th. Buy or borrow a Club Class Glider. See you there. Sean R Franke http://www.fai.org/igc-events/igc-ev...alendarId=9180 I'm looking forward to it. Any thoughts on entrance selection? Are you just using straight IGC pilot ratings, or do you plan on factoring in US pilot rankings? Matt |
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On Monday, August 12, 2013 2:41:03 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2013 1:57:32 PM UTC-4, Sean Franke wrote: On Sunday, August 11, 2013 12:10:47 PM UTC-7, Kevin Christner wrote: We've heard alot of arguments for and against instituting FAI rules in the US. For the record, I lean towards the FAI rules. If we want to win at the world level we ought to be selecting pilots under the same rules system that they will fly in the WC. That being said, the recent Junior Worlds showed a major weakness in the current scoring system. From what I can tell from the Soaring Cafe report, the Dutch Team purposely outlanded to devalue the day, resulting in one of the Dutch pilots winning. First, my congratulations to the Dutch team Captain / Coach for this brilliant insight. I have a feeling this could have gone either way, but way to play one to win. On the other hand, I don't think a scoring system should reward this sort of tactic. And I've heard of (although I can't remember where) pilots finishing straight in, then deciding whether to take a valid finish or the penalty, based on how the points would work out. Chalk this one up as interesting and worth discussion. http://soaringcafe.com/2013/08/2-cou...esnzo-is-over/ 2C Really (FAI vs. US Rules)? Are we doing this again ![]() Seriously, most US pilots have not flown an FAI contest. In that case don’t let those against FAI rules or FAI proponents influence you. Fly an FAI contest and decide for yourself. You’re likely to find no rule set is perfect and claims either way have been exaggerated. However, you may prefer one over the other. Next year you can fly a high level Category One FAI event in Chilhowee. The 1st Pan-American Gliding Championships will be in Tennessee from August 25th to September 7th. Buy or borrow a Club Class Glider. See you there.. Sean R Franke http://www.fai.org/igc-events/igc-ev...alendarId=9180 I'm looking forward to it. Any thoughts on entrance selection? Are you just using straight IGC pilot ratings, or do you plan on factoring in US pilot rankings? Matt I'm interested to see how IGC solves the issue? The contest site only take about 45 gliders. This is a Super Continental Championships with North and South America participating. I think it will be full with a waiting list. There will be X number of spots reserved for US pilots but few US pilots have an IGC ranking. We have to wait for an answer. Sean R Franke |
#4
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This happened to me at Cordele in June. I won the day and when all logs but one were in it looked like I had won the competition overall by 1 point. In the end that last log (land out) pushed us past the limit, the day was devalued, and Wally won overall by 2 points. This to say it wasn't some weird IGC "loophole" which provided incentive for land outs at the JWGC. Our own rules can present the same scenario. It was an excellent team captain playing the game. If we spent more time playing that same way we would learn when to use tactics to our advantage (and when tactics are a waste of energy)..
Sarah Arnold |
#5
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Ignoring all the crap about national differences - which really are like seasonings and provide some variety.
I think it's more concerning that larger teams have influence over the competition that smaller teams don't have. Image what would happen if the German team started to do this as matter of course - any team with less than 3 competitors in a class would be at a disadvantage. Hardly sporting, even if it is well within the letter of the rules. The last day at competitions is really a very different thing than the previous days. All sense appears to go out the window, tactics change, risks are taken that would never otherwise be taken. How much of this is actually because the point spread at the end is consistently so small? |
#6
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On Thursday, August 15, 2013 5:02:37 PM UTC+9:30, 7C wrote:
Ignoring all the crap about national differences - which really are like seasonings and provide some variety. I think it's more concerning that larger teams have influence over the competition that smaller teams don't have. Image what would happen if the German team started to do this as matter of course - any team with less than 3 competitors in a class would be at a disadvantage. Hardly sporting, even if it is well within the letter of the rules. The last day at competitions is really a very different thing than the previous days. All sense appears to go out the window, tactics change, risks are taken that would never otherwise be taken. How much of this is actually because the point spread at the end is consistently so small? I believe it's only at the juniors you're allowed a team of 3, everywhere else it is just 2. |
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