Minden Airstrip Review

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:16:58 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Good point JJ. Ideally we should have just one database for the whole Great Basin which will have all the turnpoints for all locations and contests. One single source of truth. But I think most of the "airstrips" in Frank's list should be removed from the Minden database. Is there really a strip in "Baily Ranch" which I believe is below Mt Rose? I never seen any.



Ramy

I tried to get Air Sailing, Truckee and Minden to adopt a single turnpoint list a few years back and found that trying to get glider pilots to agree on anything was like herding cats!
JJ

All these turnpoint databases...

In my Streak I use United States.cup file for my turnpoints. I see that I
also have moriarty_ASC.cup, morirt1b.cup, and moriarC.cup. It seems that
every time there's a contest at Moriarty, a new turn point file appears.
I've tried using multiple TP files and find that the lat/long positions are
not always the same, displaying multiple closely spaced turn points of the
same name, so you can't reliably choose from the map.

It would appear, then, that, should I go to one of the soaring sites in NV,
I should only use the local turn point file used by the local pilots.


"JJ Sinclair" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:16:58 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Good point JJ. Ideally we should have just one database for the whole
Great Basin which will have all the turnpoints for all locations and
contests. One single source of truth. But I think most of the "airstrips"
in Frank's list should be removed from the Minden database. Is there
really a strip in "Baily Ranch" which I believe is below Mt Rose? I never
seen any.



Ramy

I tried to get Air Sailing, Truckee and Minden to adopt a single turnpoint
list a few years back and found that trying to get glider pilots to agree on
anything was like herding cats!
JJ

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:16:58 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Good point JJ. Ideally we should have just one database for the whole Great Basin which will have all the turnpoints for all locations and contests. One single source of truth. But I think most of the "airstrips" in Frank's list should be removed from the Minden database. Is there really a strip in "Baily Ranch" which I believe is below Mt Rose? I never seen any.



Ramy

Ramy,

There is, it can be seen if you are close enough (usually this happens on your retrieve from Carson ). Look he

https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.28199...14076&t=h&z=16

It's grass in the middle of grass (the farmers there grow turf primarily I think. I haven't walked it but it looks landable from the air. I don't know why you would go there rather than Carson though. Even a 1-26 could fall off Incline and hit Carson.

I lent my beach cruiser bike to my best friend so she would have something to ride around at Burning Man two years ago. The process of exorcising that horrible playa dust from the bike put a stop to any ideas I may have had about ever taking any mechanical device of my own into that environment again. It was a nightmare - and it's just a single-speed coaster-brake bike.

I believe Ramy has a copy of my SW database which was built from Tehachapi, California City, Warner Springs, Tonopah, Ely, Avenal, Hollister and Minden databases. It has been added to and subtracted from over the years. Many people have helped update it, and VFRMap, AirNav and even Google Earth has been useful.
Approximate scope: Jacumba to Burns - Idaho Falls and Santa Barbara to Hanksville - Estrella. Yet to add the San Joaquin and Sacramento Valleys N of the Hollister - Merced line, associated coastal ranges and Sierra foothills.
Perhaps competition pilots wouldn't want to sort through 900-plus waypoints. That many waypoints with longish names won't fit in old computers either.

I camped at Black Rock City airport (FAA airport code: 88NV) for the whole Burning Man event period this year.

The landing fee was $20 this year, as long as you stay at the airport and do not enter the Burning Man event area (the airport is half mile away from the Burning Man event area). If you want to enter the Burning Man event area, then you need a ticket which has to be purchased online in advance but not sold onsite. This year's ticket was $380. But again, ticket is not sold onsite, so no amount of money will get you in Burning Man event if you arrive without a ticket.

As you said, the surface condition of 88NV and surrounding area is very good in general. In the past, Citation X jet landed on 88NV multiple times.

However, 88NV is very busy during Burning Man event. There were 30+ airplanes and helicopters at the airport at any time, and quite a few of them were giving rides to passengers over and around the city constantly during daytime. There were two charter flight companies operating flights to and from Reno. All aircrafts follow defined pattern to avoid collision in this crowded airspace. FAA officers were present to monitor any unsafe activities. If you plan to fly near Burning Man site during the event, I strongly recommend reading information on the following website thoroughly beforehand.

http://www.portofentry.org

If you land, expect no cell phone coverage at the airport or in Black Rock City. The airport had wifi but it was very sporadic.

The playa dust is alkali and corrodes metal when combined with moisture. If you land anywhere on the desert, I recommend washing your glider very carefully especially around the landing gear. Some told me that it's better to spray vinegar first to neutralize alkali, then wash.

In conclusion, I believe it's best to stay away from 88NV as much as possible. As Ramy said, landing near Gerlach is probably a much, much better option. You will have much less problem with the dust there too because it is likely that the ground surface is not disturbed since the last rain and still is packed. Note that there are traffic around 88NV a few weeks before and after the event because hundreds of workers are on the site to build and clean up the city. The cleaning is still happening as of today.

FWIW, there is no bartering at Burning Man. Everything is given away for free without expectation of gaining anything in return.

-Gen


On Friday, September 20, 2013 4:08:14 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Friday, September 20, 2013 2:28:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:

As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).







I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.







I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at







https://drive.google.com/folderview?...sha ring#list







Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)







If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.







Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).







One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!







Regards,







Frank (TA)



When Black Rock is open (during Burning Man) if you land there you will have to pay the landing fee, reportedly $250+. The rest of the time, the Black Rock desert is landable, even by the Space Shuttle. You may die of exposure walking out though.



Spaulding is an OK airport, many have landed there. The others that you question I would not consider, in most cases there are suitable alternatives nearby. Keeping in mind that Out There, if you are down to 8 or 9K feet MSL, while you are still 4 - 5K feet AGL, you are struggling and looking for a landing site. Any reasonable day you should be working between 12 and 18.

On 2013-09-20, jfitch wrote:

... the Black Rock desert is landable, even by the Space Shuttle. You may die
of exposure walking out though.

I never thought of that. Around here, "die of exposure" means "freeze
to death".


--

Rob Brown

On Friday, September 20, 2013 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Friday, September 20, 2013 6:55:09 PM UTC-7, Ralph Jones wrote:

On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 16:08:14 -0700 (PDT), jfitch



wrote:



[snip]











When Black Rock is open (during Burning Man) if you land there you will have to pay the landing fee, reportedly $250+.







I thought everything was barter at Burning Man.



Once you get in, maybe. To get in, no barter, only cash. A few years ago I flew over it, thought about landing there to walk around (would have been an easy relaunch with the motor glider). The price put me off the idea.

One is able to land for free at BRCMA but you cannot enter the gate without a ticket. Tickets are no longer available at the gate as in years past. Burning Man is a gifting economy, not barter. Trading and monetary deals are frowned upon once inside the gate. It is not some 'hippie' event.