F'ing insurance industry

This is actually a standard wording on most "group policy", unless you are
to cheap to buy your own personal insurance and pay a little more to get
around the pilot issue. And you may still have to deal with the "acts of
war" and suicide. Acts of war normally deal with active military in combat,
but since 9-11, that has changed.

BT

"gatt" wrote in message
...

My employer chose perhaps the most expensive and most useless insurance
policy they could, and today I called up Allegis Benefits and chewed them
up. Check this out:

"What is not covered under all plans:
- Suicide or attempted suicide while sane or insane
- Acts of war (declared or undeclared)
- Your commission of a felony
- Your operating, riding in, or descending from any ay aircraft other than
while a fare-paying passenger on a licensed, commercial, non-military
aircraft..."

So flying a plane puts me in company with suicides and criminals. She
thought that was funny. Just to clarify, I asked her: If I walk into a
prop
or go streaking across the runway and get clobbered by a landing jet, I am
not "operating, riding in or descending" and so I am covered. "Strictly
speaking, yes," she replied.

I finished the call by telling her that insurance industry employees will
never be welcome in my cockpit. That should be a standing code among GA
pilots: If an insurance employee wants to fly, he or she can take a jet
or
leap from a building. There's no room in general aviation for people who
liken pilots to felons and the insane.

-c

gatt wrote:

- Your operating, riding in, or descending from any ay aircraft other than
while a fare-paying passenger on a licensed, commercial, non-military
aircraft..."

Fairly standard.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message

- Your operating, riding in, or descending from any ay aircraft other
than
while a fare-paying passenger on a licensed, commercial, non-military
aircraft..."

Fairly standard.

It's crap. I could commit suicide by walking into the prop and I'd be
covered.

Not as bad as my former publisher's trust fund, though. He was 25,
inheriting a fortune over time from his grandfather's uranium mine, but the
provision of the trust was that he couldn't do anything dangerous, like fly
or ride in small airplanes which is something he wants to do about as bad as
anybody. "Here's a bunch of money for you when you're an adult, kid. Have
a mundane life."

-c

Why do you think that your employers insurance policy should cover your
high-risk activities?

Every risk that is covered has some theoretical cost and the line has to be
drawn somewhere. The cheapest policies will always exclude high risk
activities like scuba, high altitude mountaineering and private flying.

Mike
MU-2

"gatt" wrote in message
...

My employer chose perhaps the most expensive and most useless insurance
policy they could, and today I called up Allegis Benefits and chewed them
up. Check this out:

"What is not covered under all plans:
- Suicide or attempted suicide while sane or insane
- Acts of war (declared or undeclared)
- Your commission of a felony
- Your operating, riding in, or descending from any ay aircraft other than
while a fare-paying passenger on a licensed, commercial, non-military
aircraft..."

So flying a plane puts me in company with suicides and criminals. She
thought that was funny. Just to clarify, I asked her: If I walk into a
prop
or go streaking across the runway and get clobbered by a landing jet, I am
not "operating, riding in or descending" and so I am covered. "Strictly
speaking, yes," she replied.

I finished the call by telling her that insurance industry employees will
never be welcome in my cockpit. That should be a standing code among GA
pilots: If an insurance employee wants to fly, he or she can take a jet
or
leap from a building. There's no room in general aviation for people who
liken pilots to felons and the insane.

-c

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
news:Gpkkc.18085

Why do you think that your employers insurance policy should cover your
high-risk activities?

'Cause I pay my rates and I have no accident record whatsoever. And people
fly. There is no provision against smoking, riding motorcycles, bungee
jumping, rodeo, gun-twirling, sword-swallowing, playing with fireworks,
alcoholism, DUII (non-felony) or any other "high risk activities."

Are you saying that flying is high-risk? Do you tell your passengers this
before they fly with you?

-c

You are not paying rates that would cover the risk of flying. It is a
*group* policy, they need to cover risks that apply to *most* people in the
group.

I tell people that the risk of private flying is about ten times greater
than driving.

Mike
MU-2

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
news:Gpkkc.18085

Why do you think that your employers insurance policy should cover your
high-risk activities?

'Cause I pay my rates and I have no accident record whatsoever. And
people
fly. There is no provision against smoking, riding motorcycles, bungee
jumping, rodeo, gun-twirling, sword-swallowing, playing with fireworks,
alcoholism, DUII (non-felony) or any other "high risk activities."

Are you saying that flying is high-risk? Do you tell your passengers this
before they fly with you?

-c

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message

You are not paying rates that would cover the risk of flying. It is a
*group* policy, they need to cover risks that apply to *most* people in
the
group.

I tell people that the risk of private flying is about ten times greater
than driving.

Yet, again, they don't exclude motorcycles, bungee jumping, scuba diving,
personal watercraft, rock climbing, auto or horse racing, contact sports,
SMOKING, ALCOHOLISM, DUII, DRUG USE or other common hobbies and habits that
are X-times greater than driving.

Just suicides, war, felons and flying.
-c

Look around your workplace and I'll bet that you will find a lot more people
who participate in the other activities than there are who fly.

Mike
MU-2

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message

You are not paying rates that would cover the risk of flying. It is a
*group* policy, they need to cover risks that apply to *most* people in
the
group.

I tell people that the risk of private flying is about ten times greater
than driving.

Yet, again, they don't exclude motorcycles, bungee jumping, scuba diving,
personal watercraft, rock climbing, auto or horse racing, contact sports,
SMOKING, ALCOHOLISM, DUII, DRUG USE or other common hobbies and habits
that
are X-times greater than driving.

Just suicides, war, felons and flying.
-c

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message nk.net...
You are not paying rates that would cover the risk of flying. It is a
*group* policy, they need to cover risks that apply to *most* people in the
group.

Mike,
I don't know the specifics of his policy, but our group insurance at
work covers smokers, the morbidly obese, heavy drinkers, morbidly
obese smokers, motorcycle riders, rock climbers and others whose risks
don't apply to *most* people in the group. It does not contain
language excluding
people who operate a motor vehicle while intoxicated.

I don't want special treatment -- I just want to be treated the same
as other people at work whose risks don't apply to *most* people in
the group.

I tell people that the risk of private flying is about ten times greater
than driving.

That's probably true. On the same level as, say, driving a motorcycle
as I understand it.

But it doesn't seem to obviate a point, which is that the insurance
industry is stigmatizing GA beyond other common increased risks.

Gatt, look around. I was able to find life insurance elsewhere which
covered my flying, at about the same cost for only slightly less
coverage.

My $0.02
Sydney

"Snowbird" wrote in message
om...
"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
I tell people that the risk of private flying is about ten times greater
than driving.

That's probably true. On the same level as, say, driving a motorcycle
as I understand it.

Wasn't it about 8 times?

But isn't flying 15-20 times safer if you have a good attitude?
(e.g. attending (or wanting to attend) CAA safety seminars in the UK
or participating in the Wings (?) thing in the US)

That would make it safer than the average for driving. But then I'm a
firm believer that driving with a good attitude and being attentive makes
that much safer, but I've never seen any figures...which would probably
make it safer than good attitude attentive flying. Mmm.

Paul