Glider Crash Argentina

Thanks, Erik and John, for talking openly about stress related piloting skill degradation. It's a very valuable discussion because it isn't brought up much, and thus most pilots don't know to guard against it. Here's a couple of things that happened to me because of things I didn't know.

One was during a downwind off-field landing, which was going well until on very short final I saw a single wire electric fence across my flight path. I overflew the fence, but then needed to do a ground loop to stop before hitting some rapidly approaching trees. Problem was, I hadn't ever been told how to ground loop properly. I did unload the tail to avoid over stressing it, but I didn't raise the low wing aileron, and the 6 inch long grass destroyed it. What I needed to know was that if you ever have to do an intentional ground loop, you must move the stick like you're doing a diving turn.

The second occurred while trying to land at a small grass farmers airstrip. I'd never seen it in person, but it was in my turn point file because it had showed up on Google Earth. The problem was, it had been abandoned since the last time the GE photo had been taken. What I learned from that was it's a good idea at the beginning of the season to take a drive to verify small airstrips are still in existence.

-John, Q3

On Saturday, February 22, 2014 12:09:56 PM UTC-5, Sean F (F2) wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned here. Looks like a landing or out-landing phase.



http://www.eldiariodelapampa.com.ar/...2#.UwjZYEJdVo1



http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=163779

you'll only have to partially excuse me. i was in a terrible mood yesterday at work and got on RAS briefly to lift my spirits, and this was the first thing i saw. so i apologize for flaming-out on you. i still think we need to be careful to the sensitivity of such issues, not to accuse you of being insensitive, in ernest. we should try to learn what we can from other pilots mistakes. i stand by my original post in many ways, but do apologize for it's sharpness.

I completely understand Andy. No worries.

On Friday, February 28, 2014 10:10:52 AM UTC-5, Andrew Brayer wrote:
On Saturday, February 22, 2014 12:09:56 PM UTC-5, Sean F (F2) wrote:

Not sure if this has been mentioned here. Looks like a landing or out-landing phase.







http://www.eldiariodelapampa.com.ar/...2#.UwjZYEJdVo1







http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=163779



you'll only have to partially excuse me. i was in a terrible mood yesterday at work and got on RAS briefly to lift my spirits, and this was the first thing i saw. so i apologize for flaming-out on you. i still think we need to be careful to the sensitivity of such issues, not to accuse you of being insensitive, in ernest. we should try to learn what we can from other pilots mistakes. i stand by my original post in many ways, but do apologize for it's sharpness.

She was on a tight final glide flying together with another glider
with a highly experienced pilot

It occurs to me that being in a tight situation with a highly experienced pilot may not be a good thing. In such a situation, "flying together" may involve a bit of mentoring, which in my experience works great at altitude. But in a "tight final" situation, I would hate to be in the mind set where I am using queues from a more experienced pilot as part of my decision making. I don't know the facts about this tragic flight, but handling a sticky situation requires 100% of a pilot's skills and focus, and in a tight situation, it seems to me a teammate, mentor or protege may be more of a liability than an asset.

I know little about team flying, and less about this particular accident, but I would think that extra-conservative margins would benefit team flying especially with pilots with different levels of experience.

Rob

On Saturday, March 1, 2014 9:01:08 AM UTC-5, Robert Dunning wrote:
She was on a tight final glide flying together with another glider with a highly experienced pilot It occurs to me that being in a tight situation with a highly experienced pilot may not be a good thing. In such a situation, "flying together" may involve a bit of mentoring, which in my experience works great at altitude. But in a "tight final" situation, I would hate to be in the mind set where I am using queues from a more experienced pilot as part of my decision making. I don't know the facts about this tragic flight, but handling a sticky situation requires 100% of a pilot's skills and focus, and in a tight situation, it seems to me a teammate, mentor or protege may be more of a liability than an asset. I know little about team flying, and less about this particular accident, but I would think that extra-conservative margins would benefit team flying especially with pilots with different levels of experience. Rob

Good point Rob.
Letting an experienced pilot lead you into situations that pilot can handle but you can't is easliy done.
UH

Excellent points guys. This thread is an example of how much we can learn from an accident even if we don't know or are wrong on the details. This is what I like about RAS. You wouldn't find any of these in an NTSB report. I learned a lot from this thread.

Ramy