pan pan pan

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
Has anyone here ever used the emergency call PAN PAN PAN in an
aircraft?

I remember that Swissair Flight 111 that crashed off Halifax in 1998
(?) used it. Looking up the details, it went something like this:

10:14PM - "Swissair 111 heavy is declaring Pan Pan Pan. We have smoke
in the cockpit, request deviate immediate right turn to a convenient
place. I guess Boston,"

10:24PM - "We are declaring an Emergency.... We have to land
immediately."

10:30PM - crashes into the water

They were only ten minutes from landing, but had spent much more time
than that dumping fuel as per the book.

Kev

On 9 Jun 2004 10:20:59 -0700, (Kevin Darling)
wrote:

10:14PM - "Swissair 111 heavy is declaring Pan Pan Pan. We have smoke
in the cockpit,

Thanks! That's just the sort of reference I was looking for.

Interesting that later he said "declaring an emergency."

I suppose the whole concept of emergency calls has pretty much faded
out, with the advance in radio communications. It is as easy to say
(and understand) "crossing the runway" as "securite, securite". Or
"I'm declaring an emergency" as pan-pan-pan.

And the pilot says "declaring Pan..." The whole object of the
emergency calls was to avoid having to use those extra words.

"Mayday" by contrast still serves a real purpose: it tells everyone
else on the freq to shut up.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org

Cub Driver wrote:

Interesting that later he said "declaring an emergency."
....
And the pilot says "declaring Pan..." The whole object of the
emergency calls was to avoid having to use those extra words.

No. One half of the object was to get immediate attention. "Mayday" and
"pan pan" are wakeup calls for distracted radio operators. If a pilot
already has the ATS controller's attention, it has become common
practice to "declare an emergency" instead of using the term Mayday. Not
standard compliant, but accepted.

"Mayday" by contrast still serves a real purpose: it tells everyone
else on the freq to shut up.

As does pan pan (the other half of the object). Pan calls have priority
over all other traffic except distress calls.

Stefan

It also serves to let all on the freq know that someone needs priority. The
lesson from the Columbian 707 a few years ago which ran out of fuel was that if
you need priority you should use the standardized priority call. This is even
more important when in an international setting. I heard a flight tell a
British controller he had a sick passenger but the controller insisted he say
"pan pan pan" before he took any action. I thought it a bit silly at the time
but now it seems he was exactly right. After that there was no confusion or
ambiguity. He was cleared straight in and got the help he needed.

"PS2727" wrote in message
...
I heard a flight tell a
British controller he had a sick passenger but the controller insisted he
say
"pan pan pan" before he took any action. I thought it a bit silly at the
time
but now it seems he was exactly right. After that there was no confusion
or
ambiguity. He was cleared straight in and got the help he needed.

http://www.nathangb.com/wingfiles/files/4P192.pdf

Paul

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message . ..
"PS2727" wrote in message
...
I heard a flight tell a British controller he had a sick passenger
but the controller insisted he say "pan pan pan" before he took any
action. I thought it a bit silly at the time but now it seems he was
exactly right. After that there was no confusion or
ambiguity. He was cleared straight in and got the help he needed.

http://www.nathangb.com/wingfiles/files/4P192.pdf

Interesting. So the Columbian crash from lack of fuel affected the UK
and US totally differently.

The UK ATC wants pilots to be explicit, and won't treat it as an
emergency unless declared as so. But isn't that what caused the
Columbian accident?

In the US, controllers are now supposed to treat anything that
_sounds_ like an emergency, just like an emergency... whether declared
or not.

At least, that's the way the regs seem to read.

I hadn't thought of it that way. My point is that once the pan went out
everyone was on the same page. Perhaps the controllers are told to be alert for
someone who has a potential problem but hesitates in declaring the emergency.
If I ever need priority I'll have no problem sending out the standard call.

If I ever need priority I'll have no problem sending out the standard call.

But what is the standard call? Everything I've read up to this thread
has told me to say "I'm declaring an emergency." Are we now suggesting
it should be "Pan Pan"? (In Britain, evidently! But in the U.S.?)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

I Googled something up yesterday, and naturally can't find it today, that
dealt with this in the nautical world. But it would probably also be
applicable to aviation. There are three calls, given here in descending
order:

MAYDAY - Imminent danger to human life, or fatal damage to the vessel or
aircraft. Requires immediate assistance of some nature, if possible.

PAN-PAN (repeated three times) - Priority handling is required. A sailboat
that has lost it's mast, or a medical emergency on an aircraft.

SECURITE (I think this is the correct word) - This is a warning broadcast to
others from a watercraft or aircraft; sharks in an area or a sudden
emergency closure of an airport.

As I said, I'm working from memory and a couple of sources that weren't
exactly on point. Please provide any corrections you may have.

I was in the same position Dan was; I wasn't sure if the standard was being
changed or if this was supplemental...




"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

If I ever need priority I'll have no problem sending out the standard
call.

But what is the standard call? Everything I've read up to this thread
has told me to say "I'm declaring an emergency." Are we now suggesting
it should be "Pan Pan"? (In Britain, evidently! But in the U.S.?)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

"PS2727" wrote in message
...
I hadn't thought of it that way. My point is that once the pan went out
everyone was on the same page. Perhaps the controllers are told to be
alert for
someone who has a potential problem but hesitates in declaring the
emergency.
If I ever need priority I'll have no problem sending out the standard
call.

You'll never hear Pan in the US, it's a ridiculous phrase. The pilot will
simply tell you his problem, many times saying that it isn't an emergency.
Doesn't matter, I'm declaring it an emergency and the trucks will be
standing by.