Busted ADIZ - What Now?

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:41:37 GMT, Scott Lowrey wrote:

I clipped the DC ADIZ back in May.

Doesn't seem worth the time to me.

!!!!!?

I'm pretty discouraged and haven't been interested in flying ever since
I left the FBO that day.

THIS is your real problem. Your lack of interest in flying, not a temporary
certificate suspension. Admittedly, you made the mistake, and should pay the
consequences, but where is your indignation that this stupid ADIZ may cost you
your ticket? Aren't you just itching to get back into the sky and fly? Where
did the motivation that you brought to your flight training go?

If you no longer want to fly - if it truely "doesn't seem worth the time" to
you, then walk away, accept whatever the FAA wants to dish out, and let your
medical lapse. Bend over and hold your ankles, and get on with your life.

If you still want to fly, then fight as though your life depended on it.
Investigate what help AOPA might be, join their legal plan for the future, find
a lawyer, formally appeal and send in another report. Get some remedial
training NOW, as evidence to the FAA that you want to improve. And, yes, you
CAN train without a certificate, you just can't solo. You've let this sit and
fester for too long. After the smoke clears start looking for a partnership on
a plane.

What would you do?

I'd fight for my certificate to my last breath and my last dollar. If I
couldn't fly, a part of me would die.

Demonick

Fallen pilots remembered

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/NewsEn...a=68-807233-64



"Larry Baier, 53, one of two Kalispell men who died when their mail plane
crashed Tuesday night in the Little Belt Mountains, loved flying and
teaching people to fly, according to his family. "He taught a lot of people
in this valley how to fly," said Angela Baier, who is married to Baier's son
Jesse, 29, also of Kalispell. "It was just something he loved to do."
Larry Baier also is survived by his wife, Catherine, of Kalispell; daughter
Sara, 26, of Melbourne, Fla.; and sons Kace, 13, and Dakota, 11, of
Kalispell. Larry Baier's co-pilot on Tuesday, Scott Kiral, was once his
student. The two had formed a strong friendship that had lasted for years,
Angela Baier said. Baier, a flight instructor for about 26 of the 30 years
he had been a pilot, liked to do "fun-filled" things, Angela Baier said. In
addition to flying, he and son Jesse owned Applied Explosives, a local
blasting contracting firm that operates statewide. Larry Baier was teaching
his son to fly. "Dad and Jesse were working on getting" Jesse Baier a
pilot's license, Angela Baier said. Kiral, in his 30s, worked for
Installation Technologies in Kalispell. Owner Butch Keith described Kiral as
"one of a kind." A husband and stepfather, Kiral was "very intelligent" and
capable of flying a plane, driving a water truck, fighting fires, building a
computer and working on computer networks, Keith said. He said Kiral also
worked for Coldwell Banker from 2002-04. The two men had been flying from
Billings to Kalispell in a twin-engine Beech 99 airplane loaded with mail
when the aircraft went down near the top of Big Baldy Mountain, about 40
miles southeast of Great Falls. Baier had been flying the mail route for
five years for Alpine Air Express, a Utah-based U.S. Postal Service
contractor. The accident is still being investigated, but initial reports
said neither man had reported any trouble, and the plane's emergency locator
beacon did not transmit a signal. The first-class and priority mail on the
plane was bound for ZIP codes that begin with 599, which covers Flathead and
Lincoln counties. If any of the mail is salvageable, it will be released
after the National Transportation Safety Board finishes its investigation,
according to Ted Blazina, manager of marketing for the Montana district of
the U.S. Postal Service."


Larry, I did not get a chance to meet your friend Scott but I knew you very
well as my primary flight instructor, mentor and friend since 1990. Your
soft spoken words of flight direction always seem to surface when problems
arise.
In my mind, You will always be in the right seat.

Tail winds forever,
Pat Thronson
Babb, MT

"Scott Lowrey" wrote in message
news:5L4Vc.38839$mD.35434@attbi_s02

I'm looking for advice on how to respond to an FAA order suspending my
ticket.

What would you do?

Don't beat yourself up too much about this. Others have said it, but talk
to AOPA.

With that said, the FAA is under "orders" from various alphabet soups to
tender mandatory suspensions for ADIZ violations. The FAA is *not* the bad
guy here, but rather just the unwilling front man.

First time ADIZ violators are facing suspensions - not revocations - of
certificates. This is not the end of your flying career and I believe
(without looking it up at the moment) that suspensions are cleared from your
record after a couple of years.

Contrary to what you may think, you *can* do flying related activities
without your certificate. You can perform simulator work, for example, that
can count toward an instrument rating.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

"Bob Jones" wrote in message
...
"Scott Lowrey" wrote in message
news:5L4Vc.38839$mD.35434@attbi_s02

I'm looking for advice on how to respond to an FAA order suspending my
ticket.

What would you do?

Don't beat yourself up too much about this. Others have said it, but talk
to AOPA.

With that said, the FAA is under "orders" from various alphabet soups to
tender mandatory suspensions for ADIZ violations. The FAA is *not* the
bad
guy here, but rather just the unwilling front man.

First time ADIZ violators are facing suspensions - not revocations - of
certificates.

Not always. Some I know have had short phone calls and nothing more was
done.

"Scott Lowrey" wrote in message
news:5L4Vc.38839$mD.35434@attbi_s02

I'm looking for advice on how to respond to an FAA order suspending my
ticket.

What would you do?

Well, you did it, you know you did it, take the punishment and get on
with life.

Scott Lowrey wrote in message news:5L4Vc.38839$mD.35434@attbi_s02...

I'm pretty discouraged and haven't been interested in flying ever since
I left the FBO that day. I did my homework before the flight, always
prided myself on knowing the rules of the system... but when it came
right down to it, I just didn't fly right. Now I'm wondering, as a
renter, when I'll ever be confident of my skills. Unless I continue
pursuing my IR (aborted last year when I moved) and really spend a lot
of time up there (and a lot of cash), what good is it? I'll just be a
sucky 20-hour-per-year pilot.

Scott,

There's an old joke about a safety seminar where the presenter begins
by saying, "By simply walking through the door, statistics show you
are 30% less likely to die in a crash. That will conclude our seminar,
have a nice day." Attitude isn't everything but it's a lot of it.

A brief read of these groups will show that everyone makes mistakes,
and many of them are made by people with a lot more experience than
you. My 12,000 hour CFII said the closest he ever came to landing
gear-up was right after he passed 10,000 hours.

I got my PPL 2 years ago and felt a lot of very similar things to what
you've described. Definitely got disoriented (as in lost) slightly a
few times, and with the airspace around Boston being quite busy it's
as much luck as anything that I didn't clip someone's airspace. And
those were just the navigation mistakes. I'd make landings so ugly
that I'd be walking around the plane afterwards looking for wrinkles.
Absolutely everything bothered me, I have some "obsessive worrier"
characteristics in my personality (thanks, Mom!)

From what you've written I think your mistake is the kind many of us
have made, especially at that point in the learning curve, and
unfortunately you just made it in the worst place you could. If you
take heart in anything, consider that the consequences of your error
are due mostly to bureaucratic insanity rather than the true awfulness
of your offense. In 99.9% of the country being off by a mile or five
on one occasion will result in--hold your breath--absolutely nothing
happening to you. So take off your hair shirt.

In my case, I found a good CFI and had him push me hard in two
specific areas. First, we'd go out on very windy days (18g40 one time)
and work the crosswinds, which always bothered me. Now I feel much
better knowing that I can put the plane down safely in those
conditions. Second, because I fly mostly from paved 5000+ runways, I
go out and do short/soft-field pattern work every 6 months or so.
Again, knowing that I can put the 172 down in ~500' if necessary makes
me feel a lot better.

Regarding situational awareness, the lack of which is the key
contributor to your predicament, I can only say that I feel 100%
better with 200 hours than I did at 100 hours. If you fly more, you
will feel better about your flying.

Opinions here will differ widely, but in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic
regions, I think an IR is a very worthwhile thing to get for many
reasons. It will buy you back a lot of those days where there's just
too much "M" in the "VFR" and even some IFR days where icing and
storms are not a factor. It's not true in many parts of the country
but out here average IFR pilots with basically-equipped airplanes do
safely fly lots of IFR every year so the utility is quite clear.

I will also suggest contra many that training for an IR will improve
your airmanship generally, because of the discipline it imposes, and
the way it challenges you to integrate the skills of aircraft
performance, radio navigation, and communications. That's why every
insurance company in the land gives substantial discounts to pilots
with one, and why it is near-impossible to get insurance in many
planes without it, even though they may be flown VFR much of the time.

Also, when I fly anywhere outside my neighborhood, I use flight
following. It guarantees nothing, but provides an additional low-cost
mechanism that may prevent some problems. In my experience in New
England, the quality and utility of these services has generally been
good.

Last, while I chose the intensive path of aircraft ownership (1/5th of
a 172 so it's not that expensive) and regular flying throughout the
year, it is possible to be a 20hr/yr pilot and not suck. It's kind of
the way my father skis. He started at the age of 55, and what he'll do
is go on vacation somewhere like Park City once a year for a week.
He'll take a 1/2 or full-day lesson on the first day and then ski all
day long the rest of the week. He'll never be all that good, but he is
both safe and competent and enjoys it greatly. As a pilot, recency of
experience counts for a lot, and if you mostly fly locally on nice
days during the summer, you can do OK on 20 hours per year.

Personally, I would not find this satisfying, which explains why I
found the time and money to continue my flying the way I have.

Best,
-cwk.