Renting an airplane? Need Expert FARS Advice??

Hmmm... one would wonder what the FAA's definition of "or other
compensation" might include.

Spec's:
Female
24 Years Old
5' 6"
115 to 120 lb's
Brown/Red Hair
A Strong 34 C
She is not current and taking her BFR next week

My little head is telling me to go for it, but my big head is saying stop
wait (must be my old age) get some advice from the people that know more
than the FBO on the FARS and legal aspects before making a decision. I
really would like to go the hotel stays would even be fun. What would you
do?

I assume you would be the one renting the plane, otherwise...
1) How is she going to get an FBO to rent an airplane to her without a
current BFR?
2) The FBO likely had her sign something stating that only a
"authorized pilot" can fly the plane (she can't lone it to friends).

The FAA has violated people on several occasions for being able to fly
for free as a private pilot. The classic examples are tow pilots
(although an exemption is now available through the glider pilot's
association), jump pilots, etc. The FAA has said, in these situations,
that your ability to fly for free is compensation. The best bet may be
to call the Sac FSDO, ask their opinion, write down the name of the
person you talked to and then don't fly outside their district. You
are in a grey area here.

-Robert, CFI



"NW_PILOT" wrote in message ...
Ok, Fellow Pilots Here Is The Situation:

"A Private Pilot wants to rent an airplane and this person wants to fly it
from the west coast to the east coast but not back. This person would like
you to come along for the trip and dose not want to be reimbursed for any
part of the rental for time I act as PIC during the trip. This person also
is willing to pay for the aircraft rental for how ever many hours it takes
to get the airplane back home. This person would not be paying anyone for
acting as PIC just for the airplane rental! Would this be legal for a
private pilot to do? or would one have to pay your equal share on the way
there and all expenses on the way back home? or just pass on the trip"

This is the proposal that I have been offered from a good friend that lives
in Northern California that is moving even further away because of a Job on
the east coast. She thought since we hardly see each other anymore as it is
and she is moving even further away that this would be a trip that we both
would remember for lifetime. She has already discussed rental arrangements
of an aircraft with the FBO they said as long as they get a deposit for
estimated flight hours and I get a check out in the aircraft and listed as a
renter it would not be a problem. She even offered to pay for my check out
with the FBO and my renters insurance to meet fbo requirements. I will have
to pay for fuel on the way home but the FBO will reimburse me upon return.
Expense to her is not really no factor this would be a really fun trip see
spec's below.

Spec's:

Female
24 Years Old
5' 6"
115 to 120 lb's
Brown/Red Hair
A Strong 34 C
She is not current and taking her BFR next week

My little head is telling me to go for it, but my big head is saying stop
wait (must be my old age) get some advice from the people that know more
than the FBO on the FARS and legal aspects before making a decision. I
really would like to go the hotel stays would even be fun. What would you
do?


Ohhh.
No need for anyone to tell me that I have bad spelling and punctuation I
know I do!

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
I assume you would be the one renting the plane, otherwise...
1) How is she going to get an FBO to rent an airplane to her without a
current BFR?

She has been renting form that FBO for some time now and next week is going
to be going up with an instructor to take her BFR



2) The FBO likely had her sign something stating that only a
"authorized pilot" can fly the plane (she can't lone it to friends).

That is why they are going to require me to have a check out with them in
the aircraft and listed as a renter.



The FAA has violated people on several occasions for being able to fly
for free as a private pilot. The classic examples are tow pilots
(although an exemption is now available through the glider pilot's
association), jump pilots, etc. The FAA has said, in these situations,
that your ability to fly for free is compensation. The best bet may be
to call the Sac FSDO, ask their opinion, write down the name of the
person you talked to and then don't fly outside their district. You
are in a grey area here.

-Robert, CFI


I will call the Sac FSDO in the morning.



"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Ok, Fellow Pilots Here Is The Situation:

"A Private Pilot wants to rent an airplane and this person wants to fly
it
from the west coast to the east coast but not back. This person would
like
you to come along for the trip and dose not want to be reimbursed for
any
part of the rental for time I act as PIC during the trip. This person
also
is willing to pay for the aircraft rental for how ever many hours it
takes
to get the airplane back home. This person would not be paying anyone
for
acting as PIC just for the airplane rental! Would this be legal for a
private pilot to do? or would one have to pay your equal share on the
way
there and all expenses on the way back home? or just pass on the trip"

This is the proposal that I have been offered from a good friend that
lives
in Northern California that is moving even further away because of a Job
on
the east coast. She thought since we hardly see each other anymore as it
is
and she is moving even further away that this would be a trip that we
both
would remember for lifetime. She has already discussed rental
arrangements
of an aircraft with the FBO they said as long as they get a deposit for
estimated flight hours and I get a check out in the aircraft and listed
as a
renter it would not be a problem. She even offered to pay for my check
out
with the FBO and my renters insurance to meet fbo requirements. I will
have
to pay for fuel on the way home but the FBO will reimburse me upon
return.
Expense to her is not really no factor this would be a really fun trip
see
spec's below.

Spec's:

Female
24 Years Old
5' 6"
115 to 120 lb's
Brown/Red Hair
A Strong 34 C
She is not current and taking her BFR next week

My little head is telling me to go for it, but my big head is saying
stop
wait (must be my old age) get some advice from the people that know more
than the FBO on the FARS and legal aspects before making a decision. I
really would like to go the hotel stays would even be fun. What would
you
do?


Ohhh.
No need for anyone to tell me that I have bad spelling and punctuation I
know I do!

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:54:57 -0700, "NW_PILOT"
wrote:


I will call the Sac FSDO in the morning.

Probably the smartest move.

That having been said, I would suggest they'll say something like
this:

61.113 says "(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of
this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act
as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or
property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for
compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft."

You're not carrying passengers, and there's nothing stopping someone
from paying 100% of the rental (rather than pro-rating) if both of you
are in the aircraft, which gets you from the west coast to the east
coast.

However, if the pilot who is paying is not in the aircraft, like on
the return leg, yet pays for the rental, they're effectively paying
for you to ferry the aircraft back to the airport of origin, which
would be prohibited.

Female
24 Years Old
5' 6"
115 to 120 lb's
Brown/Red Hair
A Strong 34 C

I'll fly her for you!

Is she rated for aerobatics?

How much ground roll does she require for takeoff?

Hope this helps,
Peter

Ok guys, I am waiting for a return call form the FSDO, But from the initial
call it was a BIG NO the way it was proposed to be done. But there is a way
around it they think? and they are checking on it further may take them a
week or so to get back with me, it would consist of either a Joint account
at the FBO in witch deposited money from a third party that was given as a
gift in to that joint account or 2 accounts and money deposited in to them
accounts and all rental fees deducted from both accounts equally.

Sorry for the delay in writing back.