Using other freqs to communicate between planes or ground?

"Peter Duniho"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
-However, as I also mentioned, it's not an approved channel. It's reserved
-for ground test stations.

Nope. Subpart J is entitled FLIGHT Test stations.


-
-If you're going to chat on the radio in the air to other stations in the
-air, you should do so on 122.75, which is the frequency specifically set
-aside for air-to-air communication.
-
-I would also use 122.75 for student-to-instructor communications, when the
-instructor is on the ground with a hand-held for example, even though that's
-patently illegal (it's not an air-to-ground frequency, and the handheld is
-not a legal station for the purpose of transmitting).

A SINGLE instructor with a SINGLE student has been found to qualify for Subpart
K Flight School frequencies 123.3 and 123.5. The handheld is a perfectly legal
station for use in this service, but as I've pointed out several times, the
individual flight instructor (or their flight school) must apply for the license
and pay the fee.

The point of all this rambling is that there is a frequency available for almost
any use and almost any condition, but unless the stations at both end of the
communications link are authorized AND LICENSED on these frequencies, then the
communications FROM BOTH ENDS are illegal.

Jim



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

The hell it is. See previous dissertation.

Jim


gerrcoin
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

Stick to assigned freqs or, as peter
-has mentioned, 123.45 is considered to be a common chat channel.


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...

The hell it is. See previous dissertation.


Actually, 123.45 IS considered by many to be a common chat channel. It is
NOT a common chat channel, of course, but that doesn't change the fact that
many believe it is.

In the Northwest, 123.45 is assigned to the Boeing Company Flight Test
Department. This is a long and complicated URL, but it is a somewhat
up-to-date list of companies assigned to use 123.45.

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....00123.45000000

We use the aviation radio frequencies as a privilege, not a right. Don't
make up your own rules.

Bob Gardner

"gerrcoin" wrote in message
...
Just to add that transmissions from an aircraft can travel much further
than ground transmissions. So just because you never hear anything on a
particular freq does not mean that you will not cause interference on it.
Airport receivers have quite good reception and certain atmospheric
conditions can boost the propagation of radio signals by a surprising
amount. Stick to assigned freqs or, as peter has mentioned, 123.45 is
considered to be a common chat channel.

gerrcoin wrote:

Stick to assigned freqs or, as peter
has mentioned, 123.45 is considered to be a common chat channel.

Which is just a common misconception. 123,45 is no more a designated
air-to-air frequency then anything else. The FCC has 122,75 and 122,85
authorized for air-air and air-to-ground on private airports. 123,02 is
for helicopter air-to-air.

123,45 just "stuck" with a lot of pilots because it's easy to remember.
Check 4-1-11 b) 2) in the AIM.

Cheers,
Jens

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

Peter...

Sorry, you pushed a hot button. 123.4, 123.45, and a few others are flight test
frequencies (47CFR89 sub J) and are ONLY available to aircraft manufacturers and
aviation equipment manufacturers. This is the ONLY license where the person
applying for the license must indicate and swear to the fact that they are a
legitimate manufacturer. Specifically excluded by supplemental interpretation
are those constructing an aircraft for personal reasons or other "homebuilder"
reasons. Van's Aircraft could easily qualify for the licenses (and has). An
individual building an RV-6 could not.

When we need to do a test, we use one, two, or more of these for data
transmission, coordination between the test facility and the aircraft being
tested, and all that good stuff. We haven't had a need for the license for this
last year, and let it lapse. When we need it again, we'll apply and pay the fee
and get it.

It goes further than that. Before we use any of these test frequencies, we are
required to notify all other test facilities for a 100 mile radius of our
proposed hours of operation and types of transmissions they might expect to
hear. If there is a conflict between users, they are required to work it out
themselves before EITHER of them can use the frequency.

Having said that, you might want to check with the pilot of the Coors Silver
Bullet. When we were doing some antenna tests a few years ago, he decided to
use one of our assigned test frequencies as his "airshow announcement"
frequency. We politely asked him to move to his assigned frequency and he
politely told us to go !^c# ourselves. Which, since we were recording the data
on tape anyway, somehow found its way to the FCC Livermore Monitoring Station.
We weren't told what the fine was, but were advised that it was "substantial",
whatever that means.

Understand, we've got equipment, personnel, aircraft, and other expenses during
one of these tests, and when some @$$#)!& comes on to chatter it ruins an hour
of test data, which is an expense to us. A rather large expense, which, of
course, we pass on to you in the form of higher prices for our products. We
aren't about to play nice guys when this is a well known breach of the rules.

We also had a nice chat with the chief pilot of a local commuter airline who had
one of his junior pilots chatting with his buddies at FL250. That hammers the
frequency for an hour in any direction. Just a friendly chat, mind you, and the
problem disappeared.

Most of the problems stem from flight instructors who either don't know or don't
care who they screw up and teach their students the same. I do hope that those
of you who advocate the use of these frequencies are willing to pay the
consequences.

Jim



"Peter Duniho"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:



-
-Define "ok". Many pilots use 123.45 as a "junk" frequency for the purposes
-you mention, but it's not a permitted frequency. It's unlikely you'll
-interfere with anyone else using that frequency, and it's unlikely you'll
-ever get caught. But don't you think it would be better to stick to an
-approved frequency?



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

"Jim Weir" wrote in message Sorry, you pushed a hot button. 123.4,
123.45, and a few others are flight test frequencies (47CFR89 sub J) and
are ONLY available to aircraft manufacturers and aviation equipment
manufacturers.

Please allow me to qualify your statement by pointing out that this is not
true in much of the world.

D.

I could give a rat's ass less what is true outside the USA. I'm trying to make
measurements inside the USA. Observe our rules in the USA or not, your choice,
but don't regard the rules and I'll fry your ass.

Got it?

Jim



"Capt.Doug"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-"Jim Weir" wrote in message Sorry, you pushed a hot button. 123.4,
-123.45, and a few others are flight test frequencies (47CFR89 sub J) and
-are ONLY available to aircraft manufacturers and aviation equipment
-manufacturers.
-
-Please allow me to qualify your statement by pointing out that this is not
-true in much of the world.
-
-D.
-

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

Geez! Why'd you have to come across like that?
Seems the guy is making a clairification on some
non-US" issues and you have to get not only defensive, but
substanitally rude.

I think many appreciate that clrification - which contained no threats
nor direct attack, and you got all "ship yo a$$" like.
Gee - thanks for being so contructive!

Got it?

"Jim Weir" wrote in message I'll fry your ass. Got it?

And all this time I thought you were a gentleman. Take your arrogant
attitude and shove it right up your ass. If I pushed your "hot button", too
****ing bad. The US is not the whole world. I'll start using 'your' test
frequency from now on just to be spiteful. You are a civilian- how about
acting like one?

D.