Cameras in the Cockpit

$7 ?

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 3:37:34 PM UTC+3, Casey wrote:
Just wondering how others feel about sport cameras in the cockpit. Does it help with learning or is it a distraction? Would it help in accident investigations? I've seen some speculation with accidents and if a camera had been on pilot then that could help determine if a medical emergency was the cause.

I know a CFIG that does not like students to have a camera in the cockpit because he thinks it is distracting to the student.

I know that my learning curve of flying and non-flying sports have been helped by me seeing any slight error in my technique.

I know some just don't want to learn another piece of electronics, but its much easier to download and just view. One does not have to edit or post, and the price of sport cameras are cheap for some of them out there.

Could definitive proof of pilot error cause legalities for the pilots family if others were involved in the accident?

I see a lot of cool soaring videos on youtube and most seem to be coming from Europe. Of course some of these have a lot of editing involved. I don't seem many instructional type soaring videos online though. Just yesterday I did see a video from Europe that a pilot did a bungee launch with spoilers open and landed out with near accident, which was informative/instructional.

Casey

I record many or most of my flights with students (including trial lessons) with a GoPro. I have it set to automatically start recording when I turn it on, which I do when I strap in. I turn it off after landing.

I've found reviewing them useful to improve my instruction, and many students have found them useful to spot things they did wrong during the flight. It's amazing for example how easy it is to figure where that thermal really was afterwards, when it wasn't obvious (to the student) during the flight.

One of my earliest recording attempts as a fresh instructor 3 1/2 years ago is going to hit 50000 views in another day or two (it still gets 70 - 100 views a day with occasional spikes to maybe 250):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDZN21xzsRo

Tried it in a few gliders.
Wasn't comfortable with the line of sight or hitting the pilot's head on it possibility.
Jim

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 7:37:34 AM UTC-5, Casey wrote:
Just wondering how others feel about sport cameras in the cockpit.

snip

I've made several training videos with a GoPro strapped to my forehead (helps me make a point about what scanning looks like) that I sometimes use in preflight briefings. The YouTube links to them are 'private' (meaning you won't find them when searching YouTube).

Burt Compton is in the process of uploading similar training videos that are being uploaded to the SSF website (q.v., http://soaringsafety.org/learning/FTvideos.html).

Finally, several students (with my blessing) record their training flights for their (and occasionally, my) post-flight review. Nothing hand-held, of course, and the attachments are carefully selected for safety. Without exception, those students have found their reviews of such flights extremely useful as have I.

On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 7:39:33 AM UTC-5, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 3:37:34 PM UTC+3, Casey wrote:
Just wondering how others feel about sport cameras in the cockpit. Does it help with learning or is it a distraction? Would it help in accident investigations? I've seen some speculation with accidents and if a camera had been on pilot then that could help determine if a medical emergency was the cause.

I know a CFIG that does not like students to have a camera in the cockpit because he thinks it is distracting to the student.

I know that my learning curve of flying and non-flying sports have been helped by me seeing any slight error in my technique.

I know some just don't want to learn another piece of electronics, but its much easier to download and just view. One does not have to edit or post, and the price of sport cameras are cheap for some of them out there.

Could definitive proof of pilot error cause legalities for the pilots family if others were involved in the accident?

I see a lot of cool soaring videos on youtube and most seem to be coming from Europe. Of course some of these have a lot of editing involved. I don't seem many instructional type soaring videos online though. Just yesterday I did see a video from Europe that a pilot did a bungee launch with spoilers open and landed out with near accident, which was informative/instructional.

Casey

I record many or most of my flights with students (including trial lessons) with a GoPro. I have it set to automatically start recording when I turn it on, which I do when I strap in. I turn it off after landing.

I've found reviewing them useful to improve my instruction, and many students have found them useful to spot things they did wrong during the flight.. It's amazing for example how easy it is to figure where that thermal really was afterwards, when it wasn't obvious (to the student) during the flight.

To be fair, I am sure that the same accident you refer too could have been caused by an "errant" oudie PDA or cell phone or water bottle or a small still camera or any other "foreign object" in the cockpit, right?

We are not demonizing action cameras alone here, are we?

In my view, ANY foriegn object of the right size/shape has the same potential to restrict flight controls and cause an accident. Even a RAM mount itself could cause a problem if it comes "unstuck" at just the right moment.

I'm sure you are in full agreement with my clarification and that you did not intend to state that action cameras (such as GoPros) were potentially dangerous (causing accidents with serious injuries) while other, FAR MORE COMMON, glider cockpit foriegn objects were not equally dangerous.

They all require care and come with a small risk if not carefully managed.

I wonder, should we ban all foreign objects in glider cockpits? Even a POWERFlarm portable, velcroed to the deck has the potential to come off and get caught in the stick or even pedals.

Ban all foreign objects in the cockpit? RC? Just kidding ;-)!

7T

At 14:48 14 January 2016, smfidler wrote:
To be fair, I am sure that the same accident you refer too could have
been
=
caused by an "errant" oudie PDA or cell phone or water bottle or a small
st=

In the case mentioned there were several factors that led to the accident.
It was a trial flight. The instructor was tired, the pupil had been
drinking, there was an opening forward of the stick that the pupil's camera
fell in and fitted perfectly, and the instructor did not pull the release
when he found he could not move the stick forward.

The instructor hurt his back and the pupil broke his legs badly in the
ensuing incipient spin in from tow.

Completely different scenario from filming. No filming was taking place
especially no filming by the pilot in command.

**** happens.

In my Soaring magazine column, I've asked for someone to write an article for Soaring magazine about the use of cameras in the cockpit since earliest days - from hand-held cameras in competitions to record turn points, to the latest in selfies, go-pros, externally mounted and so on. The current use has generated a lot of comments about pros and cons. Someone knowledgeable could help a bit by describing this history. I've also asked for articles, pro and con, on safety aspects of selfies, and other uses of cameras, particularly in the cockpit, but also externally mounted. So far, no takers. Any takers in the RAS community?

I recall hearing about an accident some time ago, a pupil on an
introductory lesson, having been told not to take a camera along, did so
any way. Shortly after take=off (on aerotow) he dropped the camera and it
jammed behind the stick. Both occupants were very seriously injured.

At 00:26 19 January 2016, Eric Bick ZN7 wrote:
In my Soaring magazine column, I've asked for someone to write an article
f=
or Soaring magazine about the use of cameras in the cockpit since
earliest
=
days - from hand-held cameras in competitions to record turn points, to
the=
latest in selfies, go-pros, externally mounted and so on. The current
use
=
has generated a lot of comments about pros and cons. Someone
knowledgeable
=
could help a bit by describing this history. I've also asked for
articles,
=
pro and con, on safety aspects of selfies, and other uses of cameras,
parti=
cularly in the cockpit, but also externally mounted. So far, no takers.
Any=
takers in the RAS community?

PM me.