US club class definition

IIRC, years ago Dave Stevenson would select his Sports Class mount based on the published handicap values...and the site of the next national contest. Single-value handicaps can't theoretically apply equally for all days even at one location but knowing the expected weather helps narrow things down.

The problem I saw a while back was what I perceived as a sense with some that Sports and/or Club Class should exclude not just higher-performance gliders but better pilots. But being able to fly against some of the best pilots in the country--whether you have a state-of-the-art glider or something less cutting edge--is hugely appealing to me even if the handicap values are somewhat imprecise. In this case, with declining participation being perhaps the biggest problem we face in competitive soaring, the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Chip Bearden

Beginner's Question for UH or other recognized experts...

Is the handicap for either club class or sports class just based on a glider's "Best L/D" at a given wing loading (I assume max theoretical wing loading) or does it also take into account how straight or curved a glider's polar is? What effect does wing loading have on the handicap, if any?

/Chris Schrader (B2G)

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 3:12:39 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Beginner's Question for UH or other recognized experts...

Is the handicap for either club class or sports class just based on a glider's "Best L/D" at a given wing loading (I assume max theoretical wing loading) or does it also take into account how straight or curved a glider's polar is? What effect does wing loading have on the handicap, if any?

/Chris Schrader (B2G)

Non expert, unrecognizable opinion. Handicaps are based more on the polar curve for a sailplane without ballast, and a set of assumed conditions. It is a measure of the cross country achievable speed with a given type of task, wind, and thermal strength. There were many assumptions made in determining actual achievable climb rate based on vertical motion of the air in which the plane will climb. Glide polars for calculation have been anything from factory provided, to those measured by the Idaflieg, Dick Johnson, Paul Bikle, and others.

A specific sailplane type was set as the "Standard" and assigned a handicap of 1.0. In the US, higher performance (higher achievable cross country speed in the assumed conditions) gives a lower handicap number. The handicap is, under the defined conditions, to correct the achieved speed of any plane with the same pilot to have the same handicapped speed on the same day. In other words, the handicap is attempting to make all planes equal, and let the best pilot win.

The basic handicaps have been adjusted in numerous ways over the years. I had heard that Carl had used contest results to fine tune things. There have been attempts to adjust the basic handicap for different locations with stronger or weaker lift than the initial assumed lift, more or less wind, etc.

As to wing loading, the same plane at a higher wing loading will have a lower handicap number. This goes back to the assumptions, and they lead you to the conclusion that if you are able to climb at the assumed rate, a heavier model of the same plane will achieve a higher cross country speed. So, it should have a lower handicap number, because in the US system, achieved speed is multiplied by the HC to determine "handicapped speed".

In the US, there are now adjustments made to the handicap if the plane and pilot is either above or below the reference weight. So, a plane and pilot that is over the reference weight will have its handicap number reduced, and if the plane and pilot is below the reference weight, its handicap number will be increased.

That is my understanding of the current system in the US as it stands today.. The same handicap number defined for "Sports Class" is used if a plane is flown in "Club Class". It is just that "Club Class" only permits planes of a certain span (or less) and a certain handicap range to participate. "Sports Class" lets anyone compete.

Hope this helps.

Steve Leonard

All this arguing over who is the winner, when it takes an indepth education to understand who won given the complexities of the race. Meanwhile, the Daytona 500 was last Sunday and it was crystal clear who won the race. Millions watched it televised live around the world.

Soaring is exciting, it's thrilling, but all of these complexities reduces the interest of everyone to basically nothing.

Here in the world of Soaring, crossing the finish line first or last is entirely irrelevant. Only the elite few who have graduated from the College of Soaring Nonsense, can understand the race. Understanding how the rules work is about equal to understanding the tax code....

Once again, we find ourselves fighting over rules, and wondering why soaring is in a demise......hmmm, is this a parallel???

The more simple the rules are, the more attractive the sport is!

I would offer an "alternative fact", while soaring is declining in the US, I doubt it has anything to do with the Club Class definition, or with handicapping of club class. Hijacking an unrelated problem to bolster your position on yet another in-related issue is diffusing of the most important issue, "new blood".

1On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 10:22:20 AM UTC-8, wrote:
All this arguing over who is the winner, when it takes an indepth education to understand who won given the complexities of the race. Meanwhile, the Daytona 500 was last Sunday and it was crystal clear who won the race. Millions watched it televised live around the world.

Soaring is exciting, it's thrilling, but all of these complexities reduces the interest of everyone to basically nothing.

Here in the world of Soaring, crossing the finish line first or last is entirely irrelevant. Only the elite few who have graduated from the College of Soaring Nonsense, can understand the race. Understanding how the rules work is about equal to understanding the tax code....

Once again, we find ourselves fighting over rules, and wondering why soaring is in a demise......hmmm, is this a parallel???

The more simple the rules are, the more attractive the sport is!

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:22:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
All this arguing over who is the winner, when it takes an indepth education to understand who won given the complexities of the race. Meanwhile, the Daytona 500 was last Sunday and it was crystal clear who won the race. Millions watched it televised live around the world.

Soaring is exciting, it's thrilling, but all of these complexities reduces the interest of everyone to basically nothing.

Here in the world of Soaring, crossing the finish line first or last is entirely irrelevant. Only the elite few who have graduated from the College of Soaring Nonsense, can understand the race. Understanding how the rules work is about equal to understanding the tax code....

Once again, we find ourselves fighting over rules, and wondering why soaring is in a demise......hmmm, is this a parallel???

The more simple the rules are, the more attractive the sport is!

Have you ever actually raced a glider? Every time I have, it has always been pretty obvious who the winners and losers have been. Perhaps not immediately, but soon enough.

Of course, if you need immediate gratification...

Kirk
66

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:43:31 AM UTC-6, kirk.stant wrote:
On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:22:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
All this arguing over who is the winner, when it takes an indepth education to understand who won given the complexities of the race. Meanwhile, the Daytona 500 was last Sunday and it was crystal clear who won the race. Millions watched it televised live around the world.

Soaring is exciting, it's thrilling, but all of these complexities reduces the interest of everyone to basically nothing.

Here in the world of Soaring, crossing the finish line first or last is entirely irrelevant. Only the elite few who have graduated from the College of Soaring Nonsense, can understand the race. Understanding how the rules work is about equal to understanding the tax code....

Once again, we find ourselves fighting over rules, and wondering why soaring is in a demise......hmmm, is this a parallel???

The more simple the rules are, the more attractive the sport is!

Have you ever actually raced a glider? Every time I have, it has always been pretty obvious who the winners and losers have been. Perhaps not immediately, but soon enough.

Of course, if you need immediate gratification...

Kirk
66

Kirk, in case you missed it: Wilbur is one of Sean's many pseudonyms, he is blessed with so many personalities. He thinks employing other screen names to support his position is really clever. So sad.

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 1:22:20 PM UTC-5, wrote:
All this arguing over who is the winner, when it takes an indepth education to understand who won given the complexities of the race. Meanwhile, the Daytona 500 was last Sunday and it was crystal clear who won the race. Millions watched it televised live around the world.

Soaring is exciting, it's thrilling, but all of these complexities reduces the interest of everyone to basically nothing.

Here in the world of Soaring, crossing the finish line first or last is entirely irrelevant. Only the elite few who have graduated from the College of Soaring Nonsense, can understand the race. Understanding how the rules work is about equal to understanding the tax code....

Once again, we find ourselves fighting over rules, and wondering why soaring is in a demise......hmmm, is this a parallel???

The more simple the rules are, the more attractive the sport is!

I didn't see any fighting. What did I miss?
As for complexity, look at Nascar rules. Their rule book makes ours look like a post card.
They do put on a good to great show, yet they struggle to retain viewers.
FWIW
UH

I have always had a difficult time understanding the attraction of NASCAR, they race around a track making left turns, in cars they call stock when absolutely nothing on them is stock. Grand Prix, seems much more exciting and is a sport enjoyed all over the world. Was it really that much fun to run from the cops with a trunk full of bootleg liquor? And what the heck does an American motor sport have to do with gliding?

UH,

FWIW - Nascar, Indy Car Andy Grand Prix have millions of viewers. Total viewers of the Daytona 500 was 23 Million according to google.

How many people viewed the last Nationals? What is the max turnout (interest) you have seen at any glider race? It's virtually non existent.

With live feed cameras, spot tracking, and the age of the internet, passing on these resources to bring excitement to the sport will be another nail in the coffin.

You said it best UH, the rule book should fit on a postcard. Yet it's so complicated, the average aviation enthusiast can't understand how the race is scored within a 30 second explanation.

Grand Prix racing for soaring can and is understood within a short and simple explanation.

The SSA needs to have a major exploration into what the heck they are doing that is killing Soaring. For starters, it's complicated rules like above. The game needs to be able to explained briefly and simplistically to have anyone's interest be sparked. Multiple starts, going deep into a turnoint, or flying adding turn points on a MAT, just don't get the average joe excited about our sport.

Or you can just ignore the decline in our sport like a fool with cancer and die a slow death.

Tour de France, auto racing, swim racing, marathons, Reno air racing, to the cannonball run, all are understood with a brief explanation of how to win..

If this is not changed, we will only attracte a very small number of people..