First glider to buy 10-20k euro's

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 08:02:09 -0700, Tom BravoMike wrote:

After having spoken to a few DG/Libelle/Cirrus owners I am really
considering the Libelle. What would be the points to look out for when
buying one, in your opinion?

In the Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasflügel_H-201

it says:"they are quite sensitive to sideslipping and have relatively
ineffective air brakes that make short landings tricky for inexperienced
pilots". I wonder what 'sensitive to sideslipping' means in this case.

Pass. Mine has no bad habits when slipping and tends to come out of the
slip at the same speed as it went in, assuming that was the trimmed
speed. It does comes down fast in a full-blooded slip thanks all the drag
generated by pushing that razorback tail boom sideways. This compensates
nicely for the relatively weak airbrakes - but even Libelle brakes scrub
off height quite nicely if you push the nose down.

About the only thing a pilot needs to watch is that a fully held-off, two
point landing is a little trickier than in, say a Pegase, Discus or
Junior because the brakes aren't doing a whole lot after you've flaired.
So, if you're a little quick to lift the nose to the two point attitude
the glider will balloon. A lot of pilots put Libelles down on their main
wheel for this reason, but unless you're asleep behind the stick its easy
enough to correct for the balloon without making a hard landing.

That said, I usually do two pointers with mine because I like the feeling
of both wheels touching the ground simultaneously and staying down. But
it did need a bit of practise at first.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

There are a few Std. Libelles that were modified with split flaps: http://libelle.bugwiper.com/tuning.htm (towards the bottom of the page). But this is not available anymore. Libelle with these flaps may not be modified with winglets.

On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 8:02:13 AM UTC-7, Tom BravoMike wrote:
After having spoken to a few DG/Libelle/Cirrus owners I am really considering the Libelle. What would be the points to look out for when buying one, in your opinion?

In the Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasflügel_H-201

it says:"they are quite sensitive to sideslipping and have relatively ineffective air brakes that make short landings tricky for inexperienced pilots". I wonder what 'sensitive to sideslipping' means in this case.

Don't believe everything you hear or read. I owned a 201B...really sweet handling, plenty of spoilers, no problem slipping. Sweeeet handling! They have great gelcoat, most likely will not have to worry about it too much. I now own a DG300, as I wanted a little more performance...like it but I still miss the Libelle. Have a good AI give you a pre-purchase inspection, it is always cheap insurance buying anything. The 201 is an excellent first glider providing you can fit into one.

I'm a fairly slim and small pilot at 1m 70 tall and weight without parachute at 60kg. I have 70 solo hours, most of them in SZD 51-1 Junior and about 15 of those with both LS4 and Centrair Pegase.

Sean-
You say you have experience in the Pegase. I am surprised you are considering the LS1, ASW-19, Standard Cirrus, DG-100 or Libelle. I have owned two Pegase gliders over the last 18 years, and in my opinion (yeah, MY opinion!) the Pegase outperforms all of the above. I have done a 500+ km flight (DRY!) in under 4 hours (on an exceptional Moriarty day) and have over a hundred 500 km flights.

I bought my first Pegase with about 60 hours in my logbook and since then have added another 2,400 hours, almost all in the Pegase. (In the US, we just call it the Pegasus.)

There are plenty of good things to say about all of the gliders you mentioned, but the Peg shouldn't be disregarded. With a full load of water, it runs acceptably. Not on the order of a Discus, but it tends to be half the price and I love the handling.

If you want to see my Pegase, check out the "Cloudstreet: Soaring the American West" video.

Op vrijdag 16 maart 2018 02:22:04 UTC+1 schreef :
I'm a fairly slim and small pilot at 1m 70 tall and weight without parachute at 60kg. I have 70 solo hours, most of them in SZD 51-1 Junior and about 15 of those with both LS4 and Centrair Pegase.

Sean-
You say you have experience in the Pegase. I am surprised you are considering the LS1, ASW-19, Standard Cirrus, DG-100 or Libelle. I have owned two Pegase gliders over the last 18 years, and in my opinion (yeah, MY opinion!) the Pegase outperforms all of the above. I have done a 500+ km flight (DRY!) in under 4 hours (on an exceptional Moriarty day) and have over a hundred 500 km flights.

I bought my first Pegase with about 60 hours in my logbook and since then have added another 2,400 hours, almost all in the Pegase. (In the US, we just call it the Pegasus.)

There are plenty of good things to say about all of the gliders you mentioned, but the Peg shouldn't be disregarded. With a full load of water, it runs acceptably. Not on the order of a Discus, but it tends to be half the price and I love the handling.

If you want to see my Pegase, check out the "Cloudstreet: Soaring the American West" video.

I do have a few hours in the Pegase but they are slightly out of budget at about 5-10k more than I would like to spend.

Le vendredi 16 mars 2018 11:40:19 UTC+1, Senna Van den Bosch a écritÂ*:
I do have a few hours in the Pegase but they are slightly out of budget at about 5-10k more than I would like to spend.

On www.planeur.net there are 2 Pégase listed for sale, both about 15k.

Le vendredi 16 mars 2018 13:36:10 UTC+1, Tango Whisky a écritÂ*:
Le vendredi 16 mars 2018 11:40:19 UTC+1, Senna Van den Bosch a écritÂ*:
I do have a few hours in the Pegase but they are slightly out of budget at about 5-10k more than I would like to spend.

On www.planeur.net there are 2 Pégase listed for sale, both about 15k.

Just to add: I think that getting spare parts from SN Centrair could be a bit tricky. They are no longer into making sailplanes, so their attitude to customer service in this part of the market may be lacking.

Op vrijdag 16 maart 2018 13:36:10 UTC+1 schreef Tango Whisky:
Le vendredi 16 mars 2018 11:40:19 UTC+1, Senna Van den Bosch a écritÂ*:
I do have a few hours in the Pegase but they are slightly out of budget at about 5-10k more than I would like to spend.

On www.planeur.net there are 2 Pégase listed for sale, both about 15k.

I have just flown my first XC in a Pegase on Sunday. Only 160 km but I'm happy. It cruises well at 140-160 km/h. Do you have experience in rigging/derigging the Pegase? I fit in quite well and have plenty of room. Performance is lovely and really gentle and might consider one myself. I hear it's much like the ASW 19?

I bought a Pegase a couple of years ago. I don't have that many flights in it yet but here are my observations. Rigging can be easy or difficult. Much depends on the the surface of the ground. On pavement or flat grass gravel it goes together pretty easily. Uneven terrain can present a problem as everything has to be aligned just right. The wings are "bendy" so it takes greater movement at the tips to get the spars to move than you might be used to. I find the elevator connection "(L'Hotellier) to be a bit of a pain as access is limited. I don't know who designed the access hole for the control connections but it must have been somebody with small hands and arms (Trump?)and the connections are made by feel.

I think you are looking at a substantial increase in performance over the other gliders your are considering and would recommend one if you can afford it. Peg vs. ASW 19? I never flew a 19 and there are conflicting opinions. I moved up from an ASW 15 and the difference, especially at higher speeds is quite noticeable. The Peg handles very well and there are many people who swear by (not at) this glider. I'm becoming one of them. Search this group for Pegase opinions. There are a few threads. Support is a consideration. I'm not exactly sure what is going on but it seems there is a new owner.

If you aren't afraid of a little flap.. Look for a PIK-20. Performance to $$ is great!