Power Commercial to Glider Commercial

Nyal Williams wrote:

I have had a conversation with just such a transition
pilot who did all his transition flying in the summer.
When the Fall winds came he drifted off downwind and
was shocked at the difficulty in getting back. You
can say poor training; I wouldn't disagree, but I would
also say lack of experience.

Thank you. Yes, a glider rating in your pocket does not necessarily make
you a glider pilot. I have found that by the time a transitioning pilot
meets the Practical Test Standard, quite often they don't *think* like a
glider pilot yet. Your example is a case in point, IMHO. A few years
ago, here in the north east US, a highly experienced power pilot and
newly minted glider instructor, experienced an off field landing during
a local instructional flight. The cause was attributed to the topic at hand.

Tony V.

Tony Verhulst wrote:

Thank you. Yes, a glider rating in your pocket does not necessarily make
you a glider pilot. I have found that by the time a transitioning pilot
meets the Practical Test Standard, quite often they don't *think* like a
glider pilot yet.

We can argue whether cross country skills should be required to get a
glider licence. (It is in Europe.) But I won't argue that a glider
*instructor* without thorough cross country skills is a joke. A blind
teaching the blind.

Stefan

I've heard of a very experienced glider pilot
made an off-field landing during a local instructional flight
for the very same (wind) reason.

One thing you all seem to have missed is that in the past
5 years of the several dozen fatal glider accidents, not a SINGLE one
was a student pilot. In my opinion, the
recent trainees are the MOST careful, because they have
less complacency.

The glider pilots I know who are recent ratings exercise
quite good and conservative judgement. I would expect the poster
to get his commercial glider rating, and then only use the
commercial privileges quite responsibly.

In article ,
Tony Verhulst wrote:
Nyal Williams wrote:

I have had a conversation with just such a transition
pilot who did all his transition flying in the summer.
When the Fall winds came he drifted off downwind and
was shocked at the difficulty in getting back. You
can say poor training; I wouldn't disagree, but I would
also say lack of experience.

Thank you. Yes, a glider rating in your pocket does not necessarily make
you a glider pilot. I have found that by the time a transitioning pilot
meets the Practical Test Standard, quite often they don't *think* like a
glider pilot yet. Your example is a case in point, IMHO. A few years
ago, here in the north east US, a highly experienced power pilot and
newly minted glider instructor, experienced an off field landing during
a local instructional flight. The cause was attributed to the topic at hand.

Tony V.


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Mark J. Boyd

There is a big difference between getting a commercial rating
and enforcing good judgement.

What you say is equally true about a very experienced commercial
glider pilot who has never flown wave or used oxygen in the Sierras.
So what? He's certainly legal to do so, but one expects the pilot
to recognise his personal limitations.

Same for medicals, currency, etc. The public is very well served by
a pilot with a commercial rating (or any rating or privilege, for
that matter) who flies safely, with accurate self-assessment.

In article ,
Nyal Williams wrote:
Mark,

I have had a conversation with just such a transition
pilot who did all his transition flying in the summer.
When the Fall winds came he drifted off downwind and
was shocked at the difficulty in getting back. You
can say poor training; I wouldn't disagree, but I would
also say lack of experience.

Agreed.

I don't think a person
is well served by giving him a commercial rating when
he hasn't flown a full season's weather.

I believe this depends on the location. Beyond that,
getting experience and judgement required to fly safely in
any given weather or location (which may be different from
training) is a pilot responsibility, not an instructor responsibility.
I don't require my students to fly in wave before I sign them
off for a rating. I expect them and teach them to
get dual in wave before flying it, however. The regs
allow this, and I believe this is right. Are you
suggesting a "wave" endorsement, or a "season" endorsement
or regulatory requirement?

I do agree that the person is better served by flying for a whole
season's weather, and knowing the area, and becoming accustomed to
passenger for hire flights locally before giving more
"interesting" flights. And certainly acro training or X-C training
and experience before doing these things for hire. But
this is a call I give to the pilots, who I expect to use good
judgement.

Both he and
the public will expect too much of him. In case of
any sort of mishap, the FAA will be much harder on
him with the commercial than with the private ticket.

Only if he is exercising the commercial privilege.
If he enjoys the insurance being lower, but does no
flying for hire, I wouldn't expect any greater enforcement action
than for a private (at least I'm not aware of this
happening in the past).



At 18:30 14 March 2005, Mark James Boyd wrote:
Nyal,

He already has a commercial ASEL rating. So he doesn't
need
to take another commercial written test anyway. Getting
the extra
10 PIC flights is cheap, and the PTS is almost identical.

There's just no compelling reason to get a Private
instead of
a Commercial glider rating if someone has the aeronautical
experience to do it, in my opinion. No downside (for
gliders
anyway).

In article ,
Nyal Williams wrote:
I don't want to be a killjoy, but I do have a question:
Why, if you have never been in a glider and plan never
to rent one, do you want to start off by planning to
add a commercial rating right off the bat?

I encourage you to get the private pilot glider rating
and get some before adding the glider commercial.
Don't go for bragging rights with absolutely no depth;
you won't impress anyone except those not worthy of
the effort.


At 16:00 13 March 2005, Mitty wrote:
I'm looking at adding a commercial glider rating this
summer. Never been in a
glider, but my hunch is that it will be a good learning
experience even though
I'll never fly one for hire.

So ... trying to divine the meaning of Part 61.129(f)2

'20 flights in a glider as PIC' and '5 solo flights'

But ... I can't log PIC time while getting dual instruction
since I'm not rated
in the airplane. So, I'm really looking at 20 solo
flights. Right?

(The only way I could see someone having 20 flights
as PIC and but only 5 solo
flights would be if the person had a fairly new Private
glider rating and then
took dual for the Commercial. Right?)

TIA






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Mark J. Boyd






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Mark J. Boyd

Mitty wrote:

I'm looking at adding a commercial glider rating this summer. Never
been in a glider, but my hunch is that it will be a good learning
experience even though I'll never fly one for hire.

So ... trying to divine the meaning of Part 61.129(f)2

"20 flights in a glider as PIC" and "5 solo flights"

But ... I can't log PIC time while getting dual instruction since I'm
not rated in the airplane. So, I'm really looking at 20 solo flights.
Right?

(The only way I could see someone having 20 flights as PIC and but only
5 solo flights would be if the person had a fairly new Private glider
rating and then took dual for the Commercial. Right?)

TIA

The 5 flights can be part of the 20, but those 5 have to involve
practicing 61.127(b)(6). So make sure that you make a notation in your
log book that you had practiced 61.127(b)(6) for at least 5 of those 20
flights.