L 33 Solo Gliders

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 15:05:48 -0700, uneekcowgirl wrote:

That PW5, now theres an ugly sailplane. I wish the Russia had won that
competition back in the day.

A certain French bull didn't thing one was ugly!

I've flown a PW-5 once off aero tow. Was OK, quite nice to fly but felt
slow and very light - a bit like a paper bag. I flew a Std Libelle after
that (my first flight in one) and much preferred it.

To put that in context, my first post-solo single-seat glider was an SZD
Junior, which I flew exclusively until I had my Silver. This was followed
by conversion to a Pegase (at Williams Soaring), followed by my club's
Pegase 90 and Discus B. I was XC rated in the Pegase, which I'd flown a
Regional in, and Discus before before flying the PW-5 and Libelle in NZ
during a visit.

I was warned in the preflight briefing for the PW-5 that they can easily
PIO on aero tow launches because too much back stick at the start will
make them pop off the ground too early and steeply. Then an instinctive
sudden push on the stick will make them hit the floor nosewheel first,
and that this is amplified by the short wheelbase converting the nosewheel
hit followed immediately by a mainwheel bounce into an even steeper pitch-
up. That said I did pick the nose up gently but fairly early and found it
easy to hold that attitude until it lifted off. After that the tow was
quite normal.

Bringing things up to date, I love my Libelle, which gets winched and
aero towed, and have no plans to sell it any time soon, but I would like
to fly a 1-26 to see how it goes. That sports canopy sounds like fun in
summer.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Or the US contestant.Â* I forgot the name, but have a t-shirt.Â* I thought
it was a better prospect from the performance standpoint, but it was a
day late in being submitted and was, therefore, disqualified.Â* Ah, the
good old days when people stuck to the rules...

Or did I remember it incorrectly?

On 3/15/2020 4:05 PM, wrote:
That PW5, now theres an ugly sailplane. I wish the Russia had won that competition back in the day.

--
Dan, 5J

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 12:31:58 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Or the US contestant.Â* I forgot the name, but have a t-shirt.Â* I thought
it was a better prospect from the performance standpoint, but it was a
day late in being submitted and was, therefore, disqualified.Â* Ah, the
good old days when people stuck to the rules...

Or did I remember it incorrectly?

On 3/15/2020 4:05 PM, wrote:
That PW5, now theres an ugly sailplane. I wish the Russia had won that competition back in the day.

--
Dan, 5J

From a post (not mine) in ras 17 June 1994:

"In aerokurier 12/92 was a report of the World Class Glider competition which
was executed in September 1992 in Oerlinghausen, Germany.

The requirements set by IGC we
- construction after JAR22
- performance like a Ka6
- minimum airspeed = 65 km/h
- price about 30,000 DM

There were 83 announcements to this competition. At least only 44 designs were
sent to the IGC. The IGC selected 11 designs for the eliminating contest in
Oerlinghausen. On this contest only 6 prototypes were presented:

- Velino (Italy)
- PW5 (Poland)
- Russia I, Russia II (USSR)
- Cygnet 1C (USA)
- L 33 Solo (Czechia)
- SZD-51-2 Junior (modification) (Poland)

The PW5 was designed by students of the University of Warzawa (correct
spelling?) with financial support of the PZL Swidnik helicopter factory. The
modification of the SZD-51-2 Junior was from PZL Bielsko, the traditional
glider factory in Poland.

The Russia I didn't reach the requirement because the min speed is above the
requirement. So the designer stretched the wingspan from 11.1m to 12.6m which
became the Russia II.

The Cygnet 1C did not fulfill the JAR22 construction requirements and was
excluded from the contest very early.

On the last day the only German contribution to the competition arrived: the
minair from a group of students from the University in Hamburg. But it had no
registration and couldn't be flown.

This is a brief summary of this competition extracted from an article."

Interesting. I would never consider the Jantars as safe gliders for beginners, as solid as they are. IIRC, 100h flight time was required from us in my club. PW-5 yes, by all means. I have flown both.

While this thread isn't about Jantars, what, apart from it being slippery glass makes them unsuitable? I guess the forward visibility on aerotow isn't the greatest either but that's a pretty minor issue. They're pretty good back for buck.

WRT L 33, aren't those pretty much unrepairable?

(disclaimer: have Jantar Std 2, flown all the Std Jantars)

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 6:58:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Interesting. I would never consider the Jantars as safe gliders for beginners, as solid as they are. IIRC, 100h flight time was required from us in my club. PW-5 yes, by all means. I have flown both.

While this thread isn't about Jantars, what, apart from it being slippery glass makes them unsuitable? I guess the forward visibility on aerotow isn't the greatest either but that's a pretty minor issue. They're pretty good back for buck.

WRT L 33, aren't those pretty much unrepairable?

(disclaimer: have Jantar Std 2, flown all the Std Jantars)

Right, this thread is not about Jantars, but the original poster, who is asking for an opinion, wrote 'So at this point the L33, Libelle, Astir and Jantar are on our short list.' And he mentions his 14 years old son.

What makes Jantars unsuitable for beginners? They are relatively fast gliders for the age, meant for competitions at the time they were designed, and as such THEY SPIN - which is no issue for an experienced pilot but can be a disaster for a beginner. Next, the reclined position, far reach to the panel, high main wheel = limited forward visibility on the ground. With some experience, a beauty to own and to fly.

The all metal thing is a big + no gelcoat issues!
So at this point the L33, Libelle, Astir and Jantar are on our short list.


Nick:
You might want to open that list up to include the Pilatus B-4. There are 3 for sale on W&W right now. There is a guy in France who supports it with parts and information, they are Swiss made and hold value well, similar in performance to the L-33 but with retractable gear, and handle and feel much like the std. Grob/Astir. Our club has a 1-26, a 1-34, an L-33 and a B-4. The B-4 is the most popular of the 4 ships for early XC.
There is an AD on cracking at the front bulkhead but most have complied with that by now.
ROY

Nick I can second the approval of a Pilatus. I flew one for about 5 years. Its the first higher performance ship I flew after/along side the 1-26. They are robust, we left ours outside every season, climb good but not spectacular against a headwind. The elevators are pretty powerfull hence watch for pio’s the first few flights. After flying one for a few years my transition into a ventus was absolutely anticlimatic.
Dan

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 8:33:59 AM UTC-7, Nick Kennedy wrote:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K Canadian, that about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was concerned that it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily drop into a spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training before taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal except for the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

I thought that there was issues buying a Canadian ship and bringing it to the USA?
If so, that one in NC for 11K might be worth the few extra bucks and it has very low hours?
Just a thought.
R,
Chris

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 8:33:59 AM UTC-7, Nick Kennedy wrote:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K Canadian, that about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was concerned that it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily drop into a spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training before taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal except for the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.


I thought that there were often "issues" with buying a glider from Canada?
I will say that the price/age ratio of the L33 is pretty great.

R,
Chris

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 11:33:59 AM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K Canadian, that about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was concerned that it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily drop into a spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training before taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal except for the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

I had a 2 hour flight in a friend's newly imported L33 about 20 years ago. It was a very pleasant sailplane to fly. It thermalled like it was on rails. It was quite responsive. The downside was that rigging it was not fun. It always took at least 3 people to get the spar pins properly assembled. All the club experts were not able to figure out why this particular L33 was a problem to rig. So if you can leave it assembled, it would be a good ship for a good low time pilot.

Chuck Zabinski