DME recommendations

Keep in mind that a DME is a transmitter.
At some point in time, the transmitter final stage power transistors
are going to die and need replaced. When they need replaced depends on
how often you have it turned on.

(PS... A new stack, eh? So does this mean the Navion will be at OSH this
year? :-)) )

jsmith wrote:
Don't waste your money on a DME. Too much maintenance.
Purchase a good used IFR GPS.

Ron Natalie wrote:
Maintenance? I've had a KN64 in my panel for over a decade.
I haven't had any maintenance done to it. Now the rest of the
King SC stack is a different story. The GS crumped and occasionally
the displays on the KX155's fail. The transponder needs regular
attention and the stupid ADF I am never certain if it is ever working.
I'm in the middle of switching over to a Garmin stack, the only
thing I'm keeping is the KN64.
On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to install one
if I didn't already have one. Back when I put it in, I knew it was
likely to be the first casualty of the GPS era.

"Ross Richardson" wrote in message
...
jsmith wrote:

Adam, that is what I did. I had a ADF that didn't work and no DME. I
purchased a factory reconditioned KLN89/B and had it installed and removed
the ADF. The 89/B is working for me althought a Garmin 530 would also me
nice.

Ross

--
Regards,

Ross
________________________________________
972.952.3170 Phone 972.949.9249 Pager 972.952.2574 FAX

McKinney / Wing A2 North @ 48v72

Ross,

Since the original post, I've been looking at the KLN 89B.
How do you like it?
Is it certified for both enroute and approach?
I was thinking of selling my Airmap 1000 to help finance the purchase.
Is it good enough that I won't miss the moving map, etc?

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

P.S. Are you in McKinney, TX? That's where I bought my plane last
October...

mindenpilot wrote:

Since the original post, I've been looking at the KLN 89B.
How do you like it?
Is it certified for both enroute and approach?
I was thinking of selling my Airmap 1000 to help finance the purchase.
Is it good enough that I won't miss the moving map, etc?

The Airmap has an obstruction database and all the airport data, since
they are now selling for nearly half the price of what they once were,
I'd hold on to it...

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:19:22 GMT, jsmith wrote:
Don't waste your money on a DME. Too much maintenance.
Purchase a good used IFR GPS.


I beg to differ. My Cheap ******* IFR Upgrade circa-1980 KNS80
VOR/GS/DME unit has required ZERO maintenance in the 2 1/2 years
since I had it installed. If it had been an IFR GPS, I would be
poorer by about $1200 (i.e. $400/yr) for GPS database updates.
So my KNS80 has essentially paid for itself ;-)

The KNS80's are great units, and can be had for about half the cost
the cheapest used IFR GPS units. Cheaper to install too.


Ross Oliver
Cheap ******* Aviator

jsmith wrote:
Keep in mind that a DME is a transmitter.

It is...but irrelevent.

At some point in time, the transmitter final stage power transistors
are going to die and need replaced. When they need replaced depends on
how often you have it turned on.

At some point ANY electronic component may die and require replacement.
Transistor finals will last the lifetime of the airframe unless abused.

mindenpilot wrote:

"Ross Richardson" wrote in message
...


jsmith wrote:





Adam, that is what I did. I had a ADF that didn't work and no DME. I
purchased a factory reconditioned KLN89/B and had it installed and removed
the ADF. The 89/B is working for me althought a Garmin 530 would also me
nice.

Ross

--
Regards,

Ross
________________________________________
972.952.3170 Phone 972.949.9249 Pager 972.952.2574 FAX

McKinney / Wing A2 North @ 48v72



Ross,

Since the original post, I've been looking at the KLN 89B.
How do you like it?
Is it certified for both enroute and approach?
I was thinking of selling my Airmap 1000 to help finance the purchase.
Is it good enough that I won't miss the moving map, etc?

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

P.S. Are you in McKinney, TX? That's where I bought my plane last
October...




Yes, I work in McKinney and commute from 35 miles north. Small world.

The 89/B is certified for enroute, terminal, and approach. It is old
technology but works for me. The owners manual is poor. I got a couple
of hours dual with an instructor that had knowledge in the unit and
boght the John & Martha King videos on GPS and they use the 89/B as the
example. Watched them several time. Keys I discovered: 1) must be in the
flight plan mode ( not direct to) to get the approach to activate, and
2) I like the heading up (vs north up or trk up) mode and the moving
map (it does have moving map) even as simple as it is, gives good
infomation. I update via laptop getting the downloads from the
internet.. You will need a enunciator panel and CDI to interface with
it. I got a separate CDI (total of 3 now one each radio and GPS).


Sure, I would like one of the new Garmins, but couldn't afford it. You
can store flight plans, modify the plans you have in use, calculate TAS,
wind driection, etc. I bought a factory reconditioned unit.

Hope this helps.

Ross

Email me privately who you brought the plane from if you do not mind.

Here's where I'm at now.
I was interested in checking out IFR GPS units as a DME alternative.
You can get an older (KLN 89/B) unit pretty inexpensively.
So I went to my local avionics guy and talked to him a bit.
After explaining what I wanted to do, he actually recommended going the DME
route.

For an older GPS, I'd have to get another indicator to slave to it.
He also said installation costs would go up as a result.

He said the best solution (cost/complexity-wise) would be to pull my ADF and
put in a DME.
If the avionics guy is telling me this is lower cost/complexity, I guess I
better think about it!

So now I'm thinking of two choices.

1. Find an inexpensive DME. I'm thinking either Narco 890 or King 62/64.
Definitely not a remote unit.
2. Find an inexpensive IFR GPS with built in CDI (kind of like a King KX-125
NAV).

If anyone knows of such a GPS, I'd appreciate it.
If anyone knows a source of great used avionics, I'd appreciate that, too.

Oh yeah. One other alternative I was thinking of was using a KLN 89/B for
enroute only, no approach.
That is, using the GPS sort of like a DME.
Is this legal? Can you do this? The only reason I ask is that I can find a
KLN 89/B for less than a DME 64.

Thanks,

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

mindenpilot wrote:
: 1. Find an inexpensive DME. I'm thinking either Narco 890 or King 62/64.
: Definitely not a remote unit.
: 2. Find an inexpensive IFR GPS with built in CDI (kind of like a King KX-125
: NAV).

: If anyone knows of such a GPS, I'd appreciate it.
: If anyone knows a source of great used avionics, I'd appreciate that, too.

: Oh yeah. One other alternative I was thinking of was using a KLN 89/B for
: enroute only, no approach.
: That is, using the GPS sort of like a DME.
: Is this legal? Can you do this? The only reason I ask is that I can find a
: KLN 89/B for less than a DME 64.

AFAIK, you can only legally use the distance information in an IFR GPS if it's
actually IFR certified. That means that you need all the bells and whistles and an
actual IFR cert. In other words, if it's old enough to be inexpensive, it also needs
a dedicated CDI to go along with it. If you install an older IFR GPS as VFR-only, you
can't legally use its distance info as a substitute for ADF/DME.

As far as the DME goes, some of the units get their channeling from another
NAV, and some can chose between that and dial-themselves. Wiring up the channeling to
another nav will cost some labor on the install, as it's tedious and has to break into
existing wiring.

If you have the panel space and/or desire to go with the KNS-80, you get lots
of functionality for the same or less than the DME only. Be aware, however, that it
takes CDI head that doesn't have a NAV converter built-in, but sends out the OBS
encoder to the unit. They're less common, and useful with IFR GPS installs, so they
can be hard to come by. Lots of people have upgraded their KNS-80 to IFR GPS and kept
the NAV head. Technically speaking, you could install the KNS-80 without an indicator
and just use it as a slightly heavy, tall DME (or even a DME to an RNAV point, come to
think of it... maybe even an ILS with a converter-head).

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************