Private airport or small field for landout?

On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 11:52:53 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
This is an interesting post. Where are you flying from that you seem to be totally alone? I've flown from many operations, all with an active cross country community. In any such operation, there is a vast amount of local experience with the nearby private airports. Most of the laudable ones will have been landed at. The unfriendly farmers will be known.

John then you are lucky. I live in one of the wealthiest states in the US but there are only about 4 active XC pilots in the entire state. And I think only 2 regularly fly in our state. Soaring is just not a popular thing here. Probably 9 sailplanes in the entire state. One small club on the opposite end.
Even the HG/PG pilots seem to be doing way less XC than they were 10 years ago.
Adventure has fallen out of favor.

On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 5:35:28 PM UTC-4, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I'm a former cfi-i/mei and commercial glider pilot, but I've never gone cross-country in my PW-5 glider. Training up for it though. A question:

If you are in an area where the fields are small, but there are several private airfields around, which should be your priority?

Seems to me that the private airport would be safer, assuming you have enough altitude to overfly it. Also I notice that my (new) Oudie2 shows all the private airstrips around as potential landout spots.

Will you get in trouble (legal or financial) if you have to landout at a private airport (assuming you aren't declaring an emergency, of course)?

Ben


Ben

I am a former Miami boy as well. You may wish to check with a couple operations that are within a reasonable driving distance, assuming you have a trailer. Chilhowee in Benton TN is not too far from Atlanta. Sarah and Jason Arnold run the place and have a PW-5 that is available for rent.They are extremely knowledgeable. Bermuda High in South Carolina comes to mind check with Franklin Burbank, again very knowledgeable and helpful. Carolina Soaring Association in Spartanburg is a club with a strong cross country focus.

A long weekend spent at one of these operations may be what you need to kick off your first cross country efforts.

Bruce

Just curious - would you really have to explain your decision-making to an insurance adjuster? Could they deny a claim due to a bad choice?

The answer is "No" - we buy insurance in part because we all make mistakes. Although sometimes they hold it against you at renewal time.
ROY

On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 2:35:28 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I'm a former cfi-i/mei and commercial glider pilot, but I've never gone cross-country in my PW-5 glider. Training up for it though. A question:

If you are in an area where the fields are small, but there are several private airfields around, which should be your priority?

Seems to me that the private airport would be safer, assuming you have enough altitude to overfly it. Also I notice that my (new) Oudie2 shows all the private airstrips around as potential landout spots.

Will you get in trouble (legal or financial) if you have to landout at a private airport (assuming you aren't declaring an emergency, of course)?

Ben

No substitute for setting foot on any possible landing area (open fields or private airports) first prior to considering it safe other than PUBLISHED PUBLIC airports...period

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, 6PK wrote:
On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 2:35:28 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I'm a former cfi-i/mei and commercial glider pilot, but I've never gone cross-country in my PW-5 glider. Training up for it though. A question:

If you are in an area where the fields are small, but there are several private airfields around, which should be your priority?

Seems to me that the private airport would be safer, assuming you have enough altitude to overfly it. Also I notice that my (new) Oudie2 shows all the private airstrips around as potential landout spots.

Will you get in trouble (legal or financial) if you have to landout at a private airport (assuming you aren't declaring an emergency, of course)?

Ben

No substitute for setting foot on any possible landing area (open fields or private airports) first prior to considering it safe other than PUBLISHED PUBLIC airports...period

You have to be careful with public use airports, as well. You even have to be careful with notams.

A few years ago I checked notams on an early Saturday morning, there was over a page of them for Morrisville, VT. VASIs out of service (x2), runway lights out of service, taxiway lights out of service, runway end identifier lights out of service (x2), beacon out of service, on and on and ON. What do I care about any of that stuff? Later that afternoon as MVL came into view, I was astonished -- the freaking runway was GONE. Pulverised. Carted away. Big equipment all over the place. That evening I looked at Notams again. The significant bit was hiding in the middle of that page and a half of useless text. It was the shortest notam of the bunch. "arpt clsd". And I missed it. No serious concern in this case, there are landable fields in the area.

Any time you glide to a location that has only one place to land, you put yourself at heightened risk. Try not to do that unless you have known current, good intel. Arriving over the only good place to land within reach, then suddenly discovering that it isn't the good place to land you thought... is the wrong kind of exciting.

T8

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, 6PK wrote:
On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 2:35:28 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I'm a former cfi-i/mei and commercial glider pilot, but I've never gone cross-country in my PW-5 glider. Training up for it though. A question:

If you are in an area where the fields are small, but there are several private airfields around, which should be your priority?

Seems to me that the private airport would be safer, assuming you have enough altitude to overfly it. Also I notice that my (new) Oudie2 shows all the private airstrips around as potential landout spots.

Will you get in trouble (legal or financial) if you have to landout at a private airport (assuming you aren't declaring an emergency, of course)?

Ben

No substitute for setting foot on any possible landing area (open fields or private airports) first prior to considering it safe other than PUBLISHED PUBLIC airports...period

Amen to that! A good example is Estancia Municipal in NM, just a hop and a skip south of Moriarty. It was always advertised as landable for gliders by the locals. On a day with not so good weather (hard to imagine but they do exist in NM!), I took a drive down there to see it from the ground. I am glad I did! The runway is narrow and there is a berm on one side. A =15m ship may be ok but a 20+m with low wings like mine may be in trouble.

Uli
'AS'

P.S.: the 'The Old Mill' restaurant on Rt.41 in Estancia has excellent Mexican food, which made the trip even worth more! :-)

Amen to that! A good example is Estancia Municipal in NM, just a hop and a skip south of Moriarty. It was always advertised as landable for gliders by the locals. On a day with not so good weather (hard to imagine but they do exist in NM!), I took a drive down there to see it from the ground. I am glad I did! The runway is narrow and there is a berm on one side. A =15m ship may be ok but a 20+m with low wings like mine may be in trouble.

Uli
'AS'

P.S.: the 'The Old Mill' restaurant on Rt.41 in Estancia has excellent Mexican food, which made the trip even worth more! :-)

I've outlanded at Estancia three or four times when my final glide calculations simply did not agree with the weather. It isn't really a problem if you land on the centerline with your wings level, and then drift left or right on rollout to place one wingtip on the runway with the high wing above the berm, brush and runway reflectors. I wouldn't consider an aerotow out of the strip unless the wind was straight down the runway and I had a wing runner who knew what he was doing.

However, I second the "Old Mill" restaurant recommendation.

Amen to Evan's comments about airports. And - don't believe contest databases about what is an "airfield" either. Last year at the Hobbs 18m Nationals I was faced with a doubtful final glide into wind and diverted to the "private airfield" in the contest database called "Two Leggs". Guess what? Hadn't been there for 20 years. I landed in a newly planted cotton field. Nice farmer pulled me out.
ROY

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 12:13:42 PM UTC-4, Roy B. wrote:
Amen to Evan's comments about airports. And - don't believe contest databases about what is an "airfield" either. Last year at the Hobbs 18m Nationals I was faced with a doubtful final glide into wind and diverted to the "private airfield" in the contest database called "Two Leggs". Guess what? Hadn't been there for 20 years. I landed in a newly planted cotton field. Nice farmer pulled me out.
ROY

lol... You probably landed in the same field I did (in 2013) after the same search for the same non-existent, "No Leggs" airport.

T8

On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 2:35:28 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I'm a former cfi-i/mei and commercial glider pilot, but I've never gone cross-country in my PW-5 glider. Training up for it though. A question:

If you are in an area where the fields are small, but there are several private airfields around, which should be your priority?

Seems to me that the private airport would be safer, assuming you have enough altitude to overfly it. Also I notice that my (new) Oudie2 shows all the private airstrips around as potential landout spots.

Will you get in trouble (legal or financial) if you have to landout at a private airport (assuming you aren't declaring an emergency, of course)?

Ben

The general rule of thumb is "You can't get hurt in the dirt." The majority of private airstrips are unsuitable for gliders (maybe a PW5). If you do consider it, visit the strip and take photos and notes for reference. Over time you can build a database of suitable strips. At a minimum look at the strip with Google Earth. Just committing to a strip that is listed as R on the chart is a definite crap shoot. A plowed field is a safer choice (although you will have to clean the glider afterwards.

BTW, how "small" are you talking about?

Tom