Need a 2nd nav with GNS 430?

Paul Folbrecht writes:

I am doing some preliminary planning of the panel for my RV-9A and
wondering if a 2nd nav is really a necessity with a GNS 430 in the
panel. [...]
(As for navigating with the 430 tango uniform - there's ATC vectors &
the backup handheld GPS.)

If you're planning to fly IFR in IMC up here in Canada, be aware that
the regulations require sufficient navigational equipment on board so
that, should you suffer the failure of any one, you can still make an
instrument approach at a suitable alternative. (Is there no similar
rule in the States?)

This appears to rule out having only a single integrated navigational
widget installed in the cockpit. (I don't believe a handheld GPS
qualifies as a loophole.)

- FChE

You can do everything you need to do with the 430, but there are
situations where havng only one is inconvenient. For about $250 you
can buy an M1 LORAN. Now you get a second set of nav signals
independent of GPS, you can get bearing and distance to any fix at
accuracies better than VOR-DME, and the UI is very easy to learn and
use. And there's a CDI built right into the panel if you want it -
almost no wiring.

Spending $2K for a VOR seems excessive when this is an option.

Michael

Michael wrote:
You can do everything you need to do with the 430, but there are
situations where havng only one is inconvenient. For about $250 you
can buy an M1 LORAN. Now you get a second set of nav signals

You can get one for less than $250. Just look in the garbage can
behind any avionics shop.

A LORAN in an RV!! Oh, that is a hoot! I think that would be a first.

No offense.

Scott Moore wrote:

Michael wrote:

You can do everything you need to do with the 430, but there are
situations where havng only one is inconvenient. For about $250 you
can buy an M1 LORAN. Now you get a second set of nav signals


You can get one for less than $250. Just look in the garbage can
behind any avionics shop.

Paul Folbrecht wrote:
I am doing some preliminary planning of the panel for my RV-9A and
wondering if a 2nd nav is really a necessity with a GNS 430 in the
panel. Seems to me that flying IFR GPS, with mostly GPS approaches
in
the near future, I should not have much need for a 2nd VOR receiver
to
identify intersections - obviously the GPS does that itself and the
430
does have one nav radio built-in.

Paul,

I replaced my #1 radio/nav (a KX170B) with a 430 about a year ago and
keeping the #2 KX170B. I continue to use the com of the #2 and
consider it a "necessary". The nav of the #2 is now used for backup
and I do not feel it is necessary. I have a Garmin 195 on the yoke and
I could use it as emergency backup if the 430 went TU. Save the $2k or
not -- it's your call but I agree you can get along fine without the
second nav.

Chuck
Archer 2185B

Paul Folbrecht wrote:
I am doing some preliminary planning of the panel for my RV-9A and
wondering if a 2nd nav is really a necessity with a GNS 430 in the
panel. Seems to me that flying IFR GPS, with mostly GPS approaches in
the near future, I should not have much need for a 2nd VOR receiver to
identify intersections - obviously the GPS does that itself and the 430
does have one nav radio built-in.

Only problematic area I can think of are the cases where 2 VOR receivers
are pretty much necessary - to identify FAFs on ILS, LOC, and VOR (no
GPS overlay) approaches. I release that ILS's almost always have an OM
anyway and VOR IAPs w/no GPS overlay become scarcer by the month. With
WAAS.. much less of a problem all around (WAAS precision approaches).

If I decide I can do without another nav I save $2000 going with a SL-40
(com only) vs a SL-30 (nav/com).

Interesting in hearing from people with 430s (and up) how they are
flying the things.

(As for navigating with the 430 tango uniform - there's ATC vectors &
the backup handheld GPS.)


The 430 has separate VOR/GS recievers and GPS. As this group has discussed,
they are really separate inside the box, as in don't share any circuitry.
The points of failure, however, would be the power in and the display.
However, the display, if it packs in, would leave the VOR running on
the last frequency you set, but without any capability to change it.

Me, I left the original Cessna VOR in, and didn't upgrade to glideslope
on it.

Well, I just got caught up on this thread - it's gone places.

I appreciate the comments and interesting (and not interesting) tangents.

Another option for me would be to go with a Garmin 300XL as my IFR GPS
(those can now be had for very cheap) and go with the SL-30 as well.
(The SL-30 is actually really two nav radios in one, for those who
aren't aware - it can simultaneously tune two stations.)

The GRT EFIS talks to the 300XL as well which is good. My 2nd EFIS
screen would then be used mostly as a moving map to supplement the
300XL's display, which is lacking.

With this setup I can get down to $21K of equipment all-up with my IFR
backup analog stuff, transponder, etc. The only thing I am giving up
that I can see is WAAS approach capability - I don't believe the 300XL
is WAAS upgradable.


Paul Folbrecht wrote:

I am doing some preliminary planning of the panel for my RV-9A and
wondering if a 2nd nav is really a necessity with a GNS 430 in the
panel. Seems to me that flying IFR GPS, with mostly GPS approaches in
the near future, I should not have much need for a 2nd VOR receiver to
identify intersections - obviously the GPS does that itself and the 430
does have one nav radio built-in.

Only problematic area I can think of are the cases where 2 VOR receivers
are pretty much necessary - to identify FAFs on ILS, LOC, and VOR (no
GPS overlay) approaches. I release that ILS's almost always have an OM
anyway and VOR IAPs w/no GPS overlay become scarcer by the month. With
WAAS.. much less of a problem all around (WAAS precision approaches).

If I decide I can do without another nav I save $2000 going with a SL-40
(com only) vs a SL-30 (nav/com).

Interesting in hearing from people with 430s (and up) how they are
flying the things.

(As for navigating with the 430 tango uniform - there's ATC vectors &
the backup handheld GPS.)