Stupid Newbie Pattern Question

Lakeview Bill wrote:
When you are flying to a non-towered airport, do you always have to fly the
pattern, or can you make a straight-in or crosswind approach?

If these are permissible, under what circumstances?

Thanks...


I remember my examiner advocating a crosswind entry on my (private)
checkride. He preferred it because of the visibility it gave of the
runway, pattern and departing traffic.

Otherwise, there are as many opinions on the supposedly correct way to
enter the pattern as there are pilots (and as others have said, you
don't have to fly a pattern at all if you don't want to).

My personal preference is the 45 deg entry or, if the pattern is on the
other side of the runway, crossing over midfield and joining the
downwind there.

I'll do straight-ins if I"m in a hurry (i.e. need to use the bathroom),
but prefer to fly a full pattern normally. But that's just what I'm used to.

LS
N646F

The "final" leg at uncontrolled airports is where most air-air
collisions and near misses occur. You have potentially converging
traffic at the same altitude banking, turning and doing GUMPs checks
all in a very confined space.My strong recommendation is to avoid
straight in approaches at uncontrolled airports. it can be hard to see
the guy turning from base to final who is flying a normal pattern and
he is not too likely to see you. It may be legal to do straight
ins...but it isn't prudent.

On 30 May 2005 19:03:08 -0700, "Michael" wrote:

My strong recommendation is to avoid
straight in approaches at uncontrolled airports. it can be hard to see
the guy turning from base to final who is flying a normal pattern and
he is not too likely to see you. It may be legal to do straight
ins...but it isn't prudent.

I bought my handheld radio the day after I turned final to see myself
on collision course with a twin flying straight in at Hampton NH. (I
turned 90 degrees for a bit, then followed him in.)

I hadn't seen him, he hadn't seen me. Afterward he said: "Don't you
have a radio in that thing?" (It was a J-3 Cub.)

He was an instructor! He had a student flying the plane! It was his
first-ever visit to this grass field which is flagged "intensive
flight training"!

As you say: legal but not prudent. Indeed, I would call it stupid.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
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"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

5 miles out on an ILS is not "on final". Final is a part of the pattern,
and unless you fly 5 mile patterns, that's not part of it.


Well, there are those that do fly patterns with a five mile final. If
right-of-way is an issue, they have it. Be sure to yield to them.

Michael wrote:
The "final" leg at uncontrolled airports is where most air-air
collisions and near misses occur. You have potentially converging
traffic at the same altitude banking, turning and doing GUMPs checks
all in a very confined space.My strong recommendation is to avoid
straight in approaches at uncontrolled airports. it can be hard to see
the guy turning from base to final who is flying a normal pattern and
he is not too likely to see you. It may be legal to do straight
ins...but it isn't prudent.


Actually, I think you'll find that nearly all of those accidents involve
either two aircraft on final who had flow the traffic pattern or
involved an aircraft rolling out or departing on the ground.

It's rare that there is a straight-in involved because most people DO
fly the patterns. Your comments about people being distracted and
fixated on the threshold is well take though.

Cub Driver wrote:


I bought my handheld radio the day after I turned final to see myself
on collision course with a twin flying straight in at Hampton NH. (I
turned 90 degrees for a bit, then followed him in.)

I'm confused. He was flying to the reciprocal runway? If you turned
final and were on a collision course with a straight in for the same
runway sounds like you were at fault.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news
5 miles out on an ILS is not "on final". Final is a part of the pattern,
and unless you fly 5 mile patterns, that's not part of it.

Well, there are those that do fly patterns with a five mile final. If
right-of-way is an issue, they have it. Be sure to yield to them.

To reinforce this point:

If a pilot has a question about right-of-way with an airplane on a five-mile
final, then that pilot is flying a similarly "extended" pattern. If you're
in a position where you *might* need to yield to an airplane on a five-mile
final, then that airplane does have the right-of-way.

Conversely, if you're flying a normal pattern, turning base 1/2 mile or so
from the runway end, an airplane five miles out just isn't an issue at all.
They'd have right-of-way if you were in their way, but you're not so their
right-of-way is irrelevant.

And yes, contrary to the example given, even a pilot on an IFR flight plan,
once they are communicating on the CTAF they really ought to use landmarks
and position reports that VFR traffic in the pattern will recognize.
"Five-mile final runway 18", for example.

Pete

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:WEtme.19232$IC6.15139@attbi_s72...

With apologies to the FAA, this is a perfect example of what NOT to say at
a non-towered, uncontrolled airfield.

Example: We have a VOR 36 approach into Iowa City. The VOR is located ~9
miles south of the field, and often-times you will hear "Cessna 123-Tango
is inbound from the VOR at 2500 feet on the VOR 36 approach, low approach
only..."

Primary students, transient pilots, and many VFR pilots have NO idea where
that puts our friend in 123-Tango. He may as well not have announced at
all.


Well, Jay, based just on your description, without looking at any charts of
the area, I'd say that announcement puts our friend in Cessna 123T something
less than nine miles south of the field at 2500 MSL heading directly for the
runway 36 threshold. Why do you believe others can't draw that same
conclusion?

Personally, I prefer to hear reports over a known fix or landmark or a DME
distance. That way I know it's an accurate report and not a
semi-wild-ass-guess. I think you'd be surprised how inaccurate some reports
are.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?T10E3223B



More properly (and what I say when I'm practicing that approach) is "Iowa
City Traffic, Piper N56993 is nine miles south of the field, over the VOR,
inbound for landing on a practice VOR 36 approach..." with subsequent
position reports when I'm 5 miles out and again entering the pattern.
(Space permitting on the freq.)

This helps everyone concerned.


I think you're talkin' too much. There's no need to say you're over the VOR
and also say that you're nine miles south of the field. The VOR's on the
charts, transient pilots will know where it is and local pilots are familiar
with it.

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...

I agree with this "somewhat" as you need to remember, the student needs to
learn the radio calls as well. So, any practice lessons with an IFR
student should include IFR jargon as you state in his radio calls.

With this in mind, I personally include VFR references in my approach into
Madison, MS (MBO). When I practice approaches, I will say:

Madison, Sundowner 12345L 5 miles NW, inbound VOR Alpha Madison. This
tells all pilots my position relative to the airport, as well as tell any
IFR traffic what my intentions are. If any pilot doesn't know where 5
miles NW is, then I would question their navigation abilities.


I question the ability of many pilots to estimate distance. One pilot's 5
mile report is another pilot's 10 mile report. I'll trust a position over a
charted fix or landmark or a DME distance, anything else I assume to be a
SWAG.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Question their navigation abilities or not, but these people are in the
pattern. Remember, there are student pilots and they don't know which
way anything is. Don't believe me? Do a google search on "landing
pattern computer" and look at the products. Someone is buying these
things.


If they don't know which way anything is they shouldn't be in the pattern
solo.