Suggested Lunch Stops "Near" Washington, D.C.?

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 01:13:39 -0400, "John T" wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:3%Loe.18960$_o.12925@attbi_s71

1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles

I seem to recall somebody once talking about the food at Bedford, but I've
never been. Here's a (dated) link talking about the restaurant at KMRB:
http://archives.his.com/dcpilots-l/2.../msg00272.html

As the referenced person in the post, I'll throw in that when I got to
the MRB restaurant on that day, it was closed, even though I called
somewhat in advance (earlier that week?) to check.

I don't know if it's just me and this area and my luck, but all of the
airfield restaurants for me are hit and miss as far as finding them
open.

Cumberland is I think actually very close to the actual town of
Cumberland, MD, which is kind of tourist-trappy, so you'll probably
find stuff in town easily enough. Never been to Bedford myself,
though.

Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the
ADIZ, which implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the
ADIZ into Dulles. Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a
discrete squawk code and have my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I
fly GPS direct from the point where I enter the ADIZ straight into
Dulles?

I think everyone else already answered this, but ATC doesn't really
care exactly where you enter. They only need an 'entry point' to get
your strip to the right sector - Chesapeake (BWI), Mount
Vernon(DCA/ADW), or Shenandoah (IAD). Once it gets to the right
sector, just check out the class B frequences on your TAC and call the
right one - if you have the wrong one they'll just tell you who to
contact. As long as you're on the right 'end' of the Class B, they
don't care one whit. But do try to fly (mostly) direct once entering
to your landing, you will probably get a call if you go completely the
wrong way. Outside the B, inside the ADIZ, (mostly) free flight.
Inside the B, just like any othe B anywhere else.

I unfortunately won't be able to be in town for this event - I had
previous plans for the weekend!

aw

Jay Honeck wrote:

Well, our upcoming trip to Dulles has been expanded. Weather permitting,
we'll be leaving this coming Wednesday, heading up to Door County, WI,
spending the night there, and proceeding up to Mackinac Island on Thursday
for brunch. From there we ill be heading direct to the Washington, D.C.
area, over the top of the Great Lakes.

It ought to be a beautiful trip!

This routing would mean approaching Washington from the north instead of the
west. I plan to stop short of the ADIZ for lunch, get all of my ducks in a
row with an ADIZ flight plan, and then have a (relatively) short flight into
Dulles from there. (Margy, will arriving on Thursday work, or do I have to
wait till Friday?)

ANYWAY -- it appears that I've got quite a few good choices for stopping --
but maybe you "local" guys can steer me to the best food? I've picked a
few that are right on my flight plan, but I'm open to suggestions:

1. Bedford, PA (KMHZ) is just 35 minutes from Dulles.
2. Cumberland, MD (KCBE) is just 30 minutes from Dulles
3. Martinsburg, WV (KMRB) is just 15 minutes from Dulles

Of these three, which would you recommend? Or, alternatively, what's a
better stop?

Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the ADIZ, which
implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the ADIZ into Dulles.
Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a discrete squawk code and have
my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I fly GPS direct from the point where I
enter the ADIZ straight into Dulles?

Thanks for your help!
Good morning, Jay,

You might want to consider KCXY, which is on the west side of the
Susquehanna River in Harrisburg (inside the Harrisburg TRSA). Easy in
and out towered airport that's about 80 NM north of Dulles. If you stop
there around lunch time, I'll come by, pick you up and take you to
lunch. If your interested, remove the obvious from my email and contact
me directly.

Arnold Sten

You might want to consider KCXY, which is on the west side of the
Susquehanna River in Harrisburg (inside the Harrisburg TRSA). Easy in and
out towered airport that's about 80 NM north of Dulles. If you stop there
around lunch time, I'll come by, pick you up and take you to lunch.

Thanks for the kind offer, Arnold. Right now, however, the weather picture
is looking so dicey -- and we've got so many variables between school, the
inn, the plane, etc. -- that I can't say where I'll be at any particular
time or day!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
[snip]

Also, I have just started researching this ADIZ flight plan stuff. One
fellow who wrote me off-line referred to "VOR gateways" into the ADIZ,
which implies that there are set "routes" via VORs through the ADIZ into
Dulles. Is this correct, or (once I've been assigned a discrete squawk
code and have my ADIZ flight plan activated) can I fly GPS direct from
the point where I enter the ADIZ straight into Dulles?

Thanks for your help!
Good morning, Jay,


There are gateways into the ADIZ though they aren't published. I believe
that EMI, BELAY and GOLDA to the north and east are 3 of them. You can call
FSS and they can give them to you when you file. There are no set "routes"
as far as I know.

Once you get your squawk (note: they won't "clear" you into the ADIZ so
don't ask) you may or may not be cleared direct, depends on when you hit the
Class B, where in the Class B you enter and what arrival/departure routes
they're using. If you're destination was outside the Class B (under it) you
would usually be cleared direct.

HTH

Steve S

Don't know nuttin about DC.. I have been known to fly this Great Lakes
area... Your direct route will be across Canada (A foreign nation,
legally - and a bit strange, factually) but I digress - anyway,
"theoretically" you have to file an International Flight Plan to enter
and leave foreign airspace (unlike the old days where we totally
ignored such niceties).. Now, I wouldn't swear on a stack of bibles
that since 9/11 I have not accidently clipped a corner of Ontario on
occasion (koff) on my way to Cleveland but I haven't merrily flown the
entire E-W length of Ontario - as I used to do - without bothering to
talk to the 'authorities'...

So, the question in my mind is if you are planning a GPS direct from
Mackinac to DC area, what are you planning to do about the
international portion of your flight? I suggest giving your local FSDO
a call and see if simply filing a flight plan will cover your butt for
the International portion of the trip...
Even if it does (which I doubt) you still have the issue of re-entering
the USA if you are forced to land in Canada for any reason - weather -
sickness - engine - USA airspace is suddenly closed - etc... Canadian
authorities will be sweet as pie, but the a**holes on our side of the
border seem to get their rocks off harassing american citizens... A
young fella, who worked for me at the the time, took his 17 year old
girlfriend - blond, blue eyed, picture pretty, sweet as pie, all
american girl - on a tour of Ontario over the 4th of July weekend...
When they turned up at Port Huron to get home, guess what - she didn't
have a passport or birth certificate with her, they refused to let her
in - period! It took seven hours of phone calls to The Father -
Michigan Senator - US Senator - Chairman of the Oversight Committee
of US Customs - who phoned and requested the Customs Officer to let
her in - and finally had to resort to threats to get him to comply...
If it hadn't been that the Father was a direct acquaintance of a State
Senator (and had his home phone number on a holiday night) who was a
personal friend of a US Senator (ditto), I don't know how many days it
would have taken to get her re-entry into the USA... So, do your
homework..

Suggestion: From Mackinac fly GPS South to a point 5 miles East of
Detroit City Airport (DET), air file a flight plan to fly VOR direct
Windsor (YQG) direct Sandusky (SKY), and once back in USA airspace
cancel the flight plan... You are in Canadian airspace for about 20
minutes... Lots of planes coming and going that route... This is the
route I flew when I accidently clipped Canadian airspace (ahem)...

The alternate plan is to fly to the point just East of Detroit CIty
Airport, then follow the international border down the centerline of
the Detroit River, down low to stay out of the Detroit B air space,
then follow the international border across Lake Erie to Ohio and then
to DC... Low hassle, nice view in good weather...

cheers ... denny

So, the question in my mind is if you are planning a GPS direct from
Mackinac to DC area, what are you planning to do about the
international portion of your flight?

Thanks for the heads up, Denny.

IF that whole portion of the flight comes together (the weather is so often
terrible up that way that I will be more surprised than anyone if this
works) I was originally planning on flying GPS direct, as you suggest.

The more I looked at the over-water portions of that trip, the more I
realized that flying straight down the middle of Michigan was, perhaps, the
smart way to go, and then "hang a left" at Detroit...

I haven't looked in any great detail yet, but I *think* I can stay out of
Canadian airspace if I do it that way, no?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Well, yes and no.. Depends on what you mean by "down the middle of
Michigan" (where's Bill when you need him to define a word, or two)...

If you are passing East of the Detroit B, then it is as I suggested,fly
the Sunrise side of the state down nearly to DET, then down low under
the B, follow the center of the Detroit river (watch for vfr traffic
here), and out across the West end of Lake Erie... This is scenic if
the Wx is nice - downtown Detroit, Belle Isle, Grosse Isle, freighters,
pleasure boats, nuclear power plants, etc. - and you can truck along
just offshore to Ohio...

If you are going West of the Detroit B, then you aim to split the
difference between Ann Arbor and Willow Run airports - there is about a
mile of uncontrolled airspace between the two airport traffic areas
where you don't have to talk to them - easier than Duck soup with a
moving map GPS... Then you angle East, about a 150 deg. heading
initially - so that you stay out of the Detroit B - then just North of
Toledo's airspace you cut across the end of Lake Erie to the Ohio shore
(lots of tall towers in the shore areas so be alert if you are down
low), pass to the South of the Nuclear Plant just before Port Clinton,
and go merrily on your way - watching out for Cleveland, Akron,
etc...... None of this is hard, just be aware of controlled
airspace...

You really need a Detroit Terminal Chart to navigate the Detroit B,
unless ATC is on Valium and handing out clearances through the B to GA
traffic (rare)... This is why I use the Howie Keefe Air Chart
system... That way when I get a wild hair to go somewhere I just pull
out the chart bag and all the charts I need are there...

Yes, there is convective predicted for Thursday for this part of
Michigan... Anyway, if you pass near Saginaw - Browne Airport (KHYX)
Wave at Fat Albert, he'll be snoozing in the hangar.... I'll be slavng
at my office in Hemlock, some 25 miles West of there...

If you have any problems while in Michigan give me a jingle..
989-583-2353

Denny

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:60Yoe.19708$_o.9977@attbi_s71...
\ I haven't looked in any great detail yet, but I *think* I can stay out of
Canadian airspace if I do it that way, no?
--


You don't have to stay out of canadian airspace. You can transit the
airspace, you just can't land there without dealing with
customs/immigration.

Steve S

You don't have to stay out of canadian airspace. You can transit the
airspace, you just can't land there without dealing with
customs/immigration
************************************************** ********************************************
Well Steve, I hate to be difficult and I realize you have good
intentions, but you are stating things that are ABSOLUTELY wrong and
will get a pilot busted, big time... You need to call 1-800-wx-brief
and listen to JULIET, my friend...
Something Mr. Schaeffer neglected to do before touring DC in a C-150

In posting to Jay I simply wanted to give him a heads up without
getting into fine technicalities, that Flight Service will/should
know... But, it looks like I need to at least give an outline here...

The Homeland Security briefing has changed from INDIA to JULIET...
JULIET has relaxed, considerably, the filing requirements, and has
totally cancelled the Enhanced B Security regs... So, according the the
current briefing, JULIET...

The outline:
If you are landing or taking off from outside of USA territory anytime
during the flight you must file an INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT PLAN - simple
to understand, ja? An absolute requirement - no if's, and's, or
but's....

If you are on a DOMESTIC flight and simply passing through Canadian or
Mexican airspace then there are several possibilities.. ("Domestic"
meaning that you take off from USA territory and land in USA territory,
without touching foreign soil anywhere along the way.)

1. You can file an International Flight Plan (discouraged if all you
are doing is passing through foreign airspace on a domestic flight as
it increases TRACON work load and it does NOT replace your requirement
to file either a domestic VFR/ADIZ, or an IFR Flight Plan, also...
Details to follow) Likely, once the briefer understands that you are
simply passing through foreign airspace without touching down, he will
decline to accept the International Flight Plan and ask you to file as
follows...

2. You can file a domestic IFR Flight Plan - which will cover both the
passing through foreign airspace (Canada and Mexico, only) and the ADIZ
requirements... The encouraged method - and a good reason to get the
rating...

3. You can file a domestic VFR Flight Plan plus an ADIZ Flight Plan
(required if you are not on an IFR Flight Plan)... Make sure the the
Flight Service Briefer understands that you are going to be passing in
and out of foreign airspace (this is where you definitely do a
telephone file and do not use DUATS, etc.)
The drill is not difficult... in essence;
A. You file an IFR FLIGHT PLAN but enter a VFR ALTITUDE (you don't have
to be IFR rated for this)
B. You file an ADIZ Flight Plan - with the briefer and you agreeing
upon the VOR entry/exit point(s) at the ADIZ
C. In the remarks section of the IFR Flight Plan you enter the comment
"ADIZ / xxx / AFSS
where xxx is the Flight service station identifier - in my case it
would be the FSS at Lansing Michigan LAN, so my remarks would be
"ADIZ / LAN / AFSS")... This causes the computer at the center to
generate a strip for TRACON that gives the controllers along your route
a heads up that you are on a VFR/ADIZ flight....

There are a few more requirements, but the briefer at FSS will advise
you what to do, assign squawk codes, altitudes, etc... If for any
reason you are forced to land on foreign soil during the flight have
either a valid passport or a certified copy of your birth certificate
or you will NOT get back into the USA...

None of this is difficult, and it could have been a lot worse if not
for AOPA, EAA, and GA friendly elected officials reining in the the
jack booted, security thugs...

cheers ... denny

In posting to Jay I simply wanted to give him a heads up without
getting into fine technicalities, that Flight Service will/should
know... But, it looks like I need to at least give an outline here...

Big Snip

Thanks for the primer, Denny. It looks like we'll be heading south, to St.
Louis, tonight, to take the kids to Six Flags, rather than go north on our
romantic "round the top o' the lakes" flight I originally planned, due to
the predicted crappy weather up that way.

But I'll be sure to use your advice later in the summer. We WILL be flying
to Mackinac Island again this year -- it's been too long -- and then down to
my sister's in Lansing.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"