Experience Question

"Fred Choate" wrote in message
...
Hello All....

This may sound silly, but I would like to hear some opinions on a matter
presented to me this evening.

I recently got my ticket. I started 5 years ago, and due to certain
circumstances, I had to take 4 1/2 years off, then I picked up and did 10
more hours of training to prep for the checkride. My total hours to date
are 63.8 with 26.7 of those being solo time.

Okay, that being said, my In-Laws made a comment to me tonight about
flying with my children. Actually, they put it in the context of "do you
really think it is a good idea to fly with your children until you get
more hours....." followed by "....Larry (one of the In-Laws) didn't fly
with family members until he had 300 hours....".

I didn't even respond. My question to you folks is simply, how long did
you all wait before you decided it was safe to fly with your family?
Myself.....my kids were the first passengers I took up, and I felt
completely safe, prepared, and at ease with them in the aircraft with me.

Comments?

Fred


I flew with a family member about 45 minutes after I had my SEL ticket. I
flew with a non-family meber about 15 after.

I flew with my son two hours after I got my R-H, and I'll fly with my son
about 30 seconds after the 40 hours is flown off my 601XL.

I love my son, I love my family and friends and I'm pretty damn fond of
myself. If I didn't think I would make it back safely to earth every time I
went up I wouldn't go up.

Gig 601XL Builder wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote:

I love my son, I love my family and friends and I'm pretty damn fond of
myself. If I didn't think I would make it back safely to earth every time I
went up I wouldn't go up.

You are not thinking any differently than every other pilot. If there were
a way to interview every pilot killed in an aircraft crash, everyone
(excluding those who set out to commit suicide) would most likely respond
in the manner in which you did. No one launches on their last flight
expecting anything other than to return home safely.

Recall the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." All
pilots have good intentions, however, not all of these intentions transfer
into proper actions.

--
Peter
























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3 days.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote:

I love my son, I love my family and friends and I'm pretty damn fond of
myself. If I didn't think I would make it back safely to earth every time
I
went up I wouldn't go up.

You are not thinking any differently than every other pilot. If there
were
a way to interview every pilot killed in an aircraft crash, everyone
(excluding those who set out to commit suicide) would most likely respond
in the manner in which you did. No one launches on their last flight
expecting anything other than to return home safely.

Recall the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." All
pilots have good intentions, however, not all of these intentions transfer
into proper actions.

--
Peter


I understand what you are saying Peter, I don't think you understood what I
was saying.

I'm saying that if I didn't think it was safge enough for my family or
friends I wouldn't think it was safe enough for me.

Gig 601XL Builder wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote:

I understand what you are saying Peter, I don't think you understood what I
was saying.

I'm saying that if I didn't think it was safge enough for my family or
friends I wouldn't think it was safe enough for me.

Yes, I do understand what you are saying. My point is simply that every
pilot who was involved in a fatal accident (speaking of non-experimental GA
and excluding those who set out to commit suicide) most likely believed
what you and I believe.

The challenge we all continually face is putting our "money where our
mouths and keyhboards are." In other words, translate this belief into
actions (proper weather briefing, proper go/no-go/go-and-then-turn-
around-or-land decisions, proper fuel planning, practice or fly enough to
maintain proficiency, etc). Looking at GA accident statistics, this
clearly does not happen with enough regularity.


--
Peter
























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I think the thing that struck a chord with me in this case, is that said
In-Laws are both aviation people. One was a multi engine, IFR rated pilot
(he hasn't flown for years however), and the other never finished. Thier
son is a captian of an ERJ-145 on the East Coast. They have many friends
that are pilots. So the comment made to me struck me a bit odd, and just
made me think about hidden adjenda's and things like that.

Sounds like you've got a tough row to hoe ahead with the in-laws...
Something ain't right there.

To answer your initial question, though, my first passenger was my wife,
Mary, the day after I got my ticket. My next passenger(s) were my kids,
ages 4 and 1.5... Been flying with 'em every since. (They're now 14 and
11)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Looks like I'm in the minority here, but I think some self-imposed limits
are
in order. Yes, I would take family or friends up immediately after getting
the
ticket, IF it's a short ride, in good weather near your home field. If
you're
talking about going places though, I would be concerned about an
inexperienced
pilot placing unneeded performance pressure on himself. If you offer to
fly
your family to the inlaws' house, 200nm away, and they accept - then by
the
time they get belted in they have their minds set on getting there. This
is
the time when the less experienced pilot could make judgement errors,
particularly regarding weather. Lack of experience + external pressure . .
.

Depends on the training. My instructor firmly planted the seeds of caution
on all cross-country flights, and I use his teaching to this day.

Maybe we were crazy, but Mary and I launched on a multi-state cross-country
flight just a few months after I got my ticket. In fact, I just found the
flight plan the other day, stashed in a forgotten file, and we both had a
great laugh when we found that I had written down EVERY SINGLE VISIBLE
LANDMARK, in a single-spaced, typed-out format, on a trip of a thousand
miles!

We're talking entries like "Power lines at a 45-degree angle" and
"smokestack on the right", for page after page! Shoot, I put more planning
into that trip than NASA put into the moon landings -- so perhaps we do it
*better* when we're newbies, eh?

At the other end of the spectrum, I know pilots with many years of
experience who *never* leave the airport environment, and seem perfectly
content with that. To them, simply going "up" is the thrill, I guess.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Paul Tomblin wrote:
You're a brave man. I remember my first solo nighttime cross country
flight: I

As a former orienteering competitor (came 4th in the North American
championships once), I have no problems with navigation with all this
electronic stuff backing up my map and compass skills.


So how are you at map reading on hazy dark moonless nights at altitude?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

I guess I have a mixed opinion. I have recently completed my Commercial
Checkride. During that process I discovered that I did not know what I
thought I knew. In other words, there is always something to learn and
experience to be gained.

As far as the kids, I flew my children on a Private ticket. I was careful,
VFR only, and short hops only.

We all made it safely, I learned, they learned and we all had fun in the
process.

You are licensed to decide who goes and who does not. It is your decision
not the in-laws.

--
Bill Snow

Fred Choate wrote:

My question to you folks is simply, how long did you
all wait before you decided it was safe to fly with your family?

My kids have flown "since before they were born". My wife quit flying
solo when she was too pregnant to pull the yoke all the way back on a
C152.

Since 5 years old, each of the kids have been able to hold straight
and level, on course, IFR, in the soup. After all, all they could see
in the front seat was the instruments, and to them it was just a large
video game.

But, they are spoiled. Neither of the kids has "taken to" aviation.
They think "everyone" has an SUV at the airport and can go
wherever/whenever. For my wife, after she soloed, and knew that she
could land the airplane if something happened to me, she sits in the
back and reads a book while the world goes by.

So, since my family is not interested beyond the travel time, I
volunteer for Civil Air Patrol flight academies... power and glider.

Yes, I love to fly and teach!

In the mean time, I keep myself busy teaching mountain flying ground
school (5 of them this year), and then doing the flight training in
the mountains. I no longer do "mountain checkouts". What I do is
"mountain training to proficiency". The typical "2-3 hour mountain
checkout" is just enough to get some killed by attempting to operate
beyond their and their aircraft's capabilities.

After a full day ground school (Colorado Pilots Association), I have
3.5 full days of flying scheduled to take a pilot all over Colorado
and help them with operational experience and a high level of
proficiency and comfort in the Colorado Rockys! Many of my customers
return in later years for a "brush up" on proficiency and techniques.

After flying with me in Colorado, I recommend "McCall Mountain and
Canyon Flying Seminars" in McCall, ID. After that... Alaska!

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 228 Young Eagles!