Renter Insurance

Richard Kaplan wrote:
A pilot can do lots more than $5K damage to an airframe.


I just crumpled a gear door and dragged a wingtip after one of my main gear
folded. No prop strike. The tab came to $17,500, give or take a couple of
bucks.

Oh, yeah, now I remember the empenage was at a slightly off angle when I came to
a stop. That probably ran it up a bit.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Cub Driver wrote:
Then the question arises as to whether your integrity is so low that
you would put other people in hazard of catastrophic loss because you
fly or drive uninsured.

It's feasiable, but it ain't admirable.


That is a function of where you live. Here in North Carolina, I've never had a
FBO ask me if I had insurance or to buy insurance. The subject never comes up.
I don't know anybody that they've (the FBO) asked. I've rented extensively in
South Carolina and I've rented in Florida as well; the subject never comes up.

I resent your implication that this is in some way dishonorable.

I don't carry malpractice insurance either... nor do the majority of nurses I
know. We're covered by the hospital's insurance. Or the FBO's insurance in the
case of flying... less a deductible, of course.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

I hope they also have owners insurance that covers renting the plane
out. Your renters insurance will ONLY cover a loss if it can be proved
to be your fault. If a tire blows out on the runway and you total the
plane, renters insurance won't cover any of that because it wasn't the
renter's fault. The owner needs to ensure their owner's policy allows
for rental.

-Robert

OtisWinslow wrote:
Hate to burst your bubble .. but if you bust an airplane due to negligence
the insurance company will be expecting you to reimburse them for any
claims they paid on it. (Subrogration)

If you ball up a plane due to negligence, some companies will simply refuse to
pay. There was a case in litigation about 10 years ago in this part of the
country. The pilot crashed after going below minimums on an IFR approach. The
owner's on the hook for the entire bill.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

TaxSrv wrote:

He gets to keep his house, its contents, and his car.

Not necessarily. I grew up in a house that my father bought in a forced sale due
to bankruptcy. About the only possessions that are safe from the creditors is
tools you use in your profession and some types of retirement accounts.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

"TaxSrv" wrote in message

bankruptcy. He gets to keep his house, its contents, and his car.
Nothing for the plaintiff but more wasted legal bills to pay.

Actually the plaintiff will get all the assets except those protected by
bankruptcy laws. The defendant loses a good portion of his net worth and a
severely damaged credit rating.

Or the defendant can buy insurance and the case will probably settle for
policy limits.

Which plan sounds better to you?



--------------------
Richard Kaplan

www.flyimc.com

Yep the renter requires it for solo.

This is becoming more and more common.

A flight school on my home field recently started requiring this. They
had wrecked so many airplanes that their insurance very nearly doubled
in cost, with more restrictions and dramatically increased deductibles.
They're dealing with the issue of increased deductibles by requiring
all the renters AND all the CFI's to carry insurance. It's pretty hard
to go after a student pilot for an accident - there's too much
likelihood the CFI would be blamed for inadequate instruction - so this
way they cover all bases.

I suspect this is the future. For a long time, the prices for renting
airplanes did not keep up with the costs (while the cost of ownership,
obviously, did) to the point where renting airplanes became a very
marginal business AND it became nearly impossible to own an airplane
more cheaply than renting. This is changing - but not in a good way.
Owning isn't getting any cheaper, but renting is getting more
expensive.

Michael

"George Patterson" wrote:
...
If you ball up a plane due to negligence, some companies will simply
refuse to
pay. There was a case in litigation about 10 years ago in this part
of the
country. The pilot crashed after going below minimums on an IFR
approach. The
owner's on the hook for the entire bill.


Maybe that's why price-shopping can be bad. My policy is a
plain-language policy, "no fault" in bold print. Paraphrased, "We
will [in bold] pay you for loss, except under the following
circumstances: A)....B)..." Pilot error is not listed, but rather
gov't seizure, breakdown, theft by your trusted A&P, nuclear
holocaust, ....

Fred F.

"Richard Kaplan" wrote:
bankruptcy. He gets to keep his house, its contents, and his
car.
Nothing for the plaintiff but more wasted legal bills to pay.

Actually the plaintiff will get all the assets except those
protected by
bankruptcy laws. The defendant loses a good portion of his net
worth and a
severely damaged credit rating.


And state laws variously list the assets. They may cap a home at like
$150K of equity, and $1,000 on a car. Or practically unlimited home
as in Florida. This implies that someone with basically the above,
and even some cash -- plaintiff must judge if that will be lost to
defendant's legal fees -- is judgment-proof for likely claims
discussed here. What decision a defendant may make concerning credit
rating a plaintiff can't assume either way. An individual, ****ed-off
plaintiff may not care about any of this. But a business will try to
assess the realistic collection potential in advance of spending major
money (my only real point).

Fred F.

"subrogation" is a term pilots through around to keep each other up at
night. In truth is an extreamly rare situation that is very expensive
for the insurance company. Insurance must be evaluated just as you do
any other financial decision. Its bunk to say you should buy as much
insurance as you can afford. In truth you can never assign all your
liability in life to insurance companies. Therefor, you have to decide
how much you are willing to pay to reduce your liability exposure. If
the guy has little assets there is no reason for him to buy a bunch of
insurance. You have to assume the owner has insurance that covers
himself (and the plane) when renters are flying the airplane because
renters insurance does not provide that coverage.

-Robert