Question about training costs

It will work, but if you can find a good instructor and a Cessna 152,
or even Cessna 172 or Piper Cherokee, I suspect you can do it for less.
Most pilots take more than 50 hours though. For private with aircraft
renting for 90 and instructor at 30 that is 120 x 50 = 6000 plus books,
checkride fee, medical and FAA test fee figure 7000. Now figure in both
cases you need an additonal 20 hours for a total of 70. You don't need
ground school, just study on your own and take a the FAA prep test
until you get 90 or better. Your instructor can answer any questions.
One nice thing about the arrangement you quoted, they usually have
their own DE and know what to expect and the failure rate on the
checkride is lower. If you are headed for pro pilot you do not want any
checkride failures, very important and worth a lot of money. I
recommend Sheble Aviation. They do a good job and don't mess around.
They get you there. www.shebleaviaton.com says their course with 45
hours of flight time is just under $5000. I am not affiliated with
them, but have got my Seaplane rating there.

Here is what I came up for the hours you were quoted if you were taking
lessons here in Indiana. I don't know why anyone would need 60 hours of
ground school. I think that is total fluff on their part. I think I had
something like 5 hours total. Also the pre- and post-flight briefings
they quoted may be a little high. I counted on 1/2 hour per lesson for
both. IMHO it shouldn't take more then 15 minutes on both sides of the
flight for the briefings.

Ground School (60 hrs) What the hell do you need 60 hours of ground
school for?

40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S 40 * 90.00
40 * 35.00 = $5,000
10 Hours Solo 172R/S 10 * 90.00 = $ 900
1 Multimedia instruction kit $ 200
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs) 24 * 35.00 $ 840
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride $ 300
Total at my FBO $7,240

This falls into my standard range of $7-10k for getting your private.
What does Westwind do if you go over the 50 hours? I know it took me
more that 50 hours to get my private but I am brain damaged from too
much partying in the 70's :-)

Maybe Jay Beckman can pipe up about his experiences in Arizona.

Good luck. This advise is worth what you paid for it and YMMV

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ
Tolwyn wrote:

I'm looking into Westwind Aviation in Phoenix
http://www.flywsa.com/

But I wanted to know what everyone thinks of these prices.
Private Pilot Course
8 Weeks long
Ground School (60 hrs)
40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S
10 Hours Solo 172R/S
1 Multimedia instruction kit
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs)
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride

$10,600.00

I've heard anywhere from $5-8000.00 for the private pilot license.
Is that just for the calculated hours, without adding in ground
school? The wet rate is $106/hr & flight instructor is $39/hr. (Damn
Oil Prices)

If I go the commercial route
Private Pilot $10,600
Instrument Rating $14,200
Multi-Engine & Single Engine Commercial Pilot Certificates $14,300
Airline Crew Orientation Program $2,800
Flight Instructor Certs (MEI, CFII & CFI) $11,800

332 Total Flight & Simulator Hours
47 Total Multi-Engine Hours

$53,700 Total

Just thought I'd check before making the investment.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :-)

Hey Thanks everyone I appreciate it. Just wasn't sure what
the averages were. I've heard the national average is like 60-65 hrs
for ppl now.

Thanks

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:22:02 GMT, Jon Kraus
wrote:

Here is what I came up for the hours you were quoted if you were taking
lessons here in Indiana. I don't know why anyone would need 60 hours of
ground school. I think that is total fluff on their part. I think I had
something like 5 hours total. Also the pre- and post-flight briefings
they quoted may be a little high. I counted on 1/2 hour per lesson for
both. IMHO it shouldn't take more then 15 minutes on both sides of the
flight for the briefings.

Ground School (60 hrs) What the hell do you need 60 hours of ground
school for?

40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S 40 * 90.00
40 * 35.00 = $5,000
10 Hours Solo 172R/S 10 * 90.00 = $ 900
1 Multimedia instruction kit $ 200
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs) 24 * 35.00 $ 840
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride $ 300
Total at my FBO $7,240

This falls into my standard range of $7-10k for getting your private.
What does Westwind do if you go over the 50 hours? I know it took me
more that 50 hours to get my private but I am brain damaged from too
much partying in the 70's :-)

Maybe Jay Beckman can pipe up about his experiences in Arizona.

Good luck. This advise is worth what you paid for it and YMMV

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ
Tolwyn wrote:

I'm looking into Westwind Aviation in Phoenix
http://www.flywsa.com/

But I wanted to know what everyone thinks of these prices.
Private Pilot Course
8 Weeks long
Ground School (60 hrs)
40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S
10 Hours Solo 172R/S
1 Multimedia instruction kit
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs)
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride

$10,600.00

I've heard anywhere from $5-8000.00 for the private pilot license.
Is that just for the calculated hours, without adding in ground
school? The wet rate is $106/hr & flight instructor is $39/hr. (Damn
Oil Prices)

If I go the commercial route
Private Pilot $10,600
Instrument Rating $14,200
Multi-Engine & Single Engine Commercial Pilot Certificates $14,300
Airline Crew Orientation Program $2,800
Flight Instructor Certs (MEI, CFII & CFI) $11,800

332 Total Flight & Simulator Hours
47 Total Multi-Engine Hours

$53,700 Total

Just thought I'd check before making the investment.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :-)

What are your training goals? I recently finished my private here in PHX
and researched all of the schools locally. If you let me know what you
want to do I'd be happy to share what I've learned.

--ken


Tolwyn wrote:
Hey Thanks everyone I appreciate it. Just wasn't sure what
the averages were. I've heard the national average is like 60-65 hrs
for ppl now.

Thanks

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:22:02 GMT, Jon Kraus
wrote:


Here is what I came up for the hours you were quoted if you were taking
lessons here in Indiana. I don't know why anyone would need 60 hours of
ground school. I think that is total fluff on their part. I think I had
something like 5 hours total. Also the pre- and post-flight briefings
they quoted may be a little high. I counted on 1/2 hour per lesson for
both. IMHO it shouldn't take more then 15 minutes on both sides of the
flight for the briefings.


Ground School (60 hrs) What the hell do you need 60 hours of ground

school for?


40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S 40 * 90.00

40 * 35.00 = $5,000

10 Hours Solo 172R/S 10 * 90.00 = $ 900
1 Multimedia instruction kit $ 200
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs) 24 * 35.00 $ 840
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride $ 300

Total at my FBO $7,240

This falls into my standard range of $7-10k for getting your private.
What does Westwind do if you go over the 50 hours? I know it took me
more that 50 hours to get my private but I am brain damaged from too
much partying in the 70's :-)

Maybe Jay Beckman can pipe up about his experiences in Arizona.

Good luck. This advise is worth what you paid for it and YMMV

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ
Tolwyn wrote:


I'm looking into Westwind Aviation in Phoenix
http://www.flywsa.com/

But I wanted to know what everyone thinks of these prices.
Private Pilot Course
8 Weeks long
Ground School (60 hrs)
40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S
10 Hours Solo 172R/S
1 Multimedia instruction kit
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs)
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride

$10,600.00

I've heard anywhere from $5-8000.00 for the private pilot license.
Is that just for the calculated hours, without adding in ground
school? The wet rate is $106/hr & flight instructor is $39/hr. (Damn
Oil Prices)

If I go the commercial route
Private Pilot $10,600
Instrument Rating $14,200
Multi-Engine & Single Engine Commercial Pilot Certificates $14,300
Airline Crew Orientation Program $2,800
Flight Instructor Certs (MEI, CFII & CFI) $11,800

332 Total Flight & Simulator Hours
47 Total Multi-Engine Hours

$53,700 Total

Just thought I'd check before making the investment.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :-)

Really just looking for my ppl right now. But the instrument rating
and so on I'd want to add on at some point. Westwind seems to be
the biggest I've found here so far. What route did you take?

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:28:52 -0700, Ken Hughes
wrote:

What are your training goals? I recently finished my private here in PHX
and researched all of the schools locally. If you let me know what you
want to do I'd be happy to share what I've learned.

--ken


Tolwyn wrote:
Hey Thanks everyone I appreciate it. Just wasn't sure what
the averages were. I've heard the national average is like 60-65 hrs
for ppl now.

Thanks

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:22:02 GMT, Jon Kraus
wrote:


Here is what I came up for the hours you were quoted if you were taking
lessons here in Indiana. I don't know why anyone would need 60 hours of
ground school. I think that is total fluff on their part. I think I had
something like 5 hours total. Also the pre- and post-flight briefings
they quoted may be a little high. I counted on 1/2 hour per lesson for
both. IMHO it shouldn't take more then 15 minutes on both sides of the
flight for the briefings.


Ground School (60 hrs) What the hell do you need 60 hours of ground

school for?


40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S 40 * 90.00

40 * 35.00 = $5,000

10 Hours Solo 172R/S 10 * 90.00 = $ 900
1 Multimedia instruction kit $ 200
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs) 24 * 35.00 $ 840
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride $ 300

Total at my FBO $7,240

This falls into my standard range of $7-10k for getting your private.
What does Westwind do if you go over the 50 hours? I know it took me
more that 50 hours to get my private but I am brain damaged from too
much partying in the 70's :-)

Maybe Jay Beckman can pipe up about his experiences in Arizona.

Good luck. This advise is worth what you paid for it and YMMV

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ
Tolwyn wrote:


I'm looking into Westwind Aviation in Phoenix
http://www.flywsa.com/

But I wanted to know what everyone thinks of these prices.
Private Pilot Course
8 Weeks long
Ground School (60 hrs)
40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S
10 Hours Solo 172R/S
1 Multimedia instruction kit
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs)
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride

$10,600.00

I've heard anywhere from $5-8000.00 for the private pilot license.
Is that just for the calculated hours, without adding in ground
school? The wet rate is $106/hr & flight instructor is $39/hr. (Damn
Oil Prices)

If I go the commercial route
Private Pilot $10,600
Instrument Rating $14,200
Multi-Engine & Single Engine Commercial Pilot Certificates $14,300
Airline Crew Orientation Program $2,800
Flight Instructor Certs (MEI, CFII & CFI) $11,800

332 Total Flight & Simulator Hours
47 Total Multi-Engine Hours

$53,700 Total

Just thought I'd check before making the investment.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :-)

Here's a strategy for doing the PPL efficiently and reasonably cheaply:

Buy the books and study at home. Use Kershner or Machado, which are
reasonably entertaining and very thorough. You'll need FAR/AIM and the Gleim
book is useful for last-minute test prep. Think about getting the written
out of the way early.
Ask around and find an experienced freelance instructor with a good local
repuation -- someone who's dedicated to the trade and will stick with you
through the whole process.
Train in an older 172. Density altitude at Phoenix means that a 152 has
marginal climb peformance and it will waste a lot of your time just getting
up to pattern altitude.
Train at an uncontrolled field, so you don't waste a lot of time taxiing and
waiting, with the engine turning, on the ground. Deer Valley is not
uncontrolled.
If you have a background in sailing or flying model airplanes, things will
go faster -- you already know how a wing works.

Seth
Comanche N8100R





"Tolwyn" wrote in message
...
Really just looking for my ppl right now. But the instrument rating
and so on I'd want to add on at some point. Westwind seems to be
the biggest I've found here so far. What route did you take?

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:28:52 -0700, Ken Hughes
wrote:

What are your training goals? I recently finished my private here in PHX
and researched all of the schools locally. If you let me know what you
want to do I'd be happy to share what I've learned.

--ken


Tolwyn wrote:
Hey Thanks everyone I appreciate it. Just wasn't sure what
the averages were. I've heard the national average is like 60-65 hrs
for ppl now.

Thanks

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:22:02 GMT, Jon Kraus
wrote:


Here is what I came up for the hours you were quoted if you were taking
lessons here in Indiana. I don't know why anyone would need 60 hours of
ground school. I think that is total fluff on their part. I think I had
something like 5 hours total. Also the pre- and post-flight briefings
they quoted may be a little high. I counted on 1/2 hour per lesson for
both. IMHO it shouldn't take more then 15 minutes on both sides of the
flight for the briefings.


Ground School (60 hrs) What the hell do you need 60 hours of ground

school for?


40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S 40 * 90.00

40 * 35.00 = $5,000

10 Hours Solo 172R/S 10 * 90.00 = $ 900
1 Multimedia instruction kit $ 200
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs) 24 * 35.00 $ 840
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride $ 300

Total at my FBO $7,240

This falls into my standard range of $7-10k for getting your private.
What does Westwind do if you go over the 50 hours? I know it took me
more that 50 hours to get my private but I am brain damaged from too
much partying in the 70's :-)

Maybe Jay Beckman can pipe up about his experiences in Arizona.

Good luck. This advise is worth what you paid for it and YMMV

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ
Tolwyn wrote:


I'm looking into Westwind Aviation in Phoenix
http://www.flywsa.com/

But I wanted to know what everyone thinks of these prices.
Private Pilot Course
8 Weeks long
Ground School (60 hrs)
40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S
10 Hours Solo 172R/S
1 Multimedia instruction kit
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs)
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride

$10,600.00

I've heard anywhere from $5-8000.00 for the private pilot license.
Is that just for the calculated hours, without adding in ground
school? The wet rate is $106/hr & flight instructor is $39/hr. (Damn
Oil Prices)

If I go the commercial route
Private Pilot $10,600
Instrument Rating $14,200
Multi-Engine & Single Engine Commercial Pilot Certificates $14,300
Airline Crew Orientation Program $2,800
Flight Instructor Certs (MEI, CFII & CFI) $11,800

332 Total Flight & Simulator Hours
47 Total Multi-Engine Hours

$53,700 Total

Just thought I'd check before making the investment.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :-)

Wow. I took 90 hours and enjoyed every min. I guess everyone is in a rush
to go someplace. When you decided to fly at 51 the journey is as sweet as
the destination. (you can teach old dogs new tricks)

I choosed to do extra training in our NY/Philly class B area and learned to
fly along the coast and over the Deleware bay etc. Didn't mind the extra
cost. I would have spent the same money on the flight time and instruction
after my PP-SEL.

But then this is a hobby for me. I have a day job. We are all very lucky to
experience this.


"Tolwyn" wrote in message
...
I'm looking into Westwind Aviation in Phoenix
http://www.flywsa.com/

TF wrote:
Wow. I took 90 hours and enjoyed every min.

In my case, it was 72 hours, and I enjoyed most of it. Having a lovely blond
instructor of the opposite sex played a part. :-) I had some trouble getting my
medical certificate, though, and about 15 hours of that was marking time waiting
on that.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.