What happens in IMC

This is what happens when you're a schmuck and fly into IMC without an
Instument Rating...

http://www.naats.org/docs/flightassist.mp3

In article , says...


This is what happens when you're a schmuck and fly into IMC without an
Instument Rating...


Only happens if you're a "schmuck" though, and cannot happen if you have
an instrument rating. I think this understanding represents a
significant advance in the study of VFR-into-IMC events, and should go a
long way toward reduction of accidents. . .

This is what happens when you're a schmuck and fly into IMC without an
Instument Rating...

Only happens if you're a "schmuck" though, and cannot happen if you have
an instrument rating.

I'm not sure if this was a tongue-in-cheek post, or not -- but there are
quite a few "loss of control in IMC" accidents every year by pilots with an
IR in their pocket.

Not to say it's not a good thing to have, but an instrument rating ain't a
"get out of jail free" card unless you're proficient and flying
well-maintained iron.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I will second that Jay.

--
Bill Snow, CP, IA, ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

I'll chime in too. The flying in IMC requires even more practice than a
VFR-only ticket with less room for mistakes. Equipment limitations demand
more respect as well. All of this means that an IR makes some people safer
while others become more dangerous.

Marco Leon

"William Snow" wrote in message
. ..
I will second that Jay.

--
Bill Snow, CP, IA, ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci





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To go back to the original post - I'm going to play spoiler here...

Other than pointing the hapless pilot towards VFR Wx (which he should
have known before departing) after the pilot recovered the aircraft,
what did ATC contribute? Did the controller reach out and fly the
airplane?

As I hear the recording, after all the pilots screaming into the mike,
the controller's reply was soothing but that was all... By the time the
pilot replied without screaming, he had already seen a tower go by,
figured out where down was, corrected his attitude, and the airplane
was upright and in visual conditions (or at least semi visual)... ATC
then instructed him to climb back into hard IMC so they could document
the crash coordinates on radar!!!

While that pilot may believe that ATC saved his bacon I have a
different take on it... They held his hand on the radio which is
certainly to their credit (99.9% of controllers are good folks)... But
putting a VFR pilot back into the clouds was not the way to go...
Clouds rarely go all the way to the ground... The fact that he could
climb the airplane back into hard IMC and maintain control while
changing headings, etc.., means he is a better pilot than given credit
for... If he had climbed back into the clag and then yanked the wings
off, ATC would have been answering hard questions to his wife's
lawyers...

He was lucky to survive his error resulting in a spiral (complete rolls
unlikely, just a confused inner ear)... ATC was lucky to survive their
error in climbing a vfr pilot back into imc...

denny

Marco Leon (at) wrote:
I'll chime in too.

OK, I'll bite. I agree with Jay's basic statement that an IR is not a
magic wand, but that's not saying much.

The flying in IMC requires even more practice than a
VFR-only ticket with less room for mistakes.

Apples and oranges, to some degree. Flying a successful XC mission in
the system is an order of magnitude more complex than simply surviving
a VFR-into-IMC encounter. IFR students are typically capable of holding
heading and altitude within a few hundred feet in the first 10 or so
hours, while passing the checkride takes 50 or more. At least in my
case, the first things I get rusty on are procedures, like hold
entries. Basic attitude flying (you don't need to pass a checkride,
just survive) will likely last a lot longer between re-training.

Equipment limitations demand
more respect as well. All of this means that an IR makes some people safer
while others become more dangerous.

Individually, yes. As a population, no. Why does every insurance
company give discounts for IR? Why do they effectively require it for
higher-performance planes? It sometimes seems to me that the only
people suggesting the IR doesn't significantly increase safety are
unrated pilots.

Now, the -utility- of the rating is a whole 'nother question on which I
have decidedly mixed feelings.

-cwk.

"Greg Farris" wrote in message
...
In article , says...


This is what happens when you're a schmuck and fly into IMC without an
Instument Rating...


Only happens if you're a "schmuck" though, and cannot happen if you have
an instrument rating.

Quite a few NTSB reports do not agree with that assessment. Here's just
one:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...12X20891&key=1

"Charlie Derk" wrote in message
...
This is what happens when you're a schmuck and fly into IMC without an
Instument Rating...

http://www.naats.org/docs/flightassist.mp3

Let me guess. You just got your IFR rating.

moo

This is what happens when you're a schmuck and fly into IMC without
an
Instument Rating...


Would that be a "schmuck in the muck"? G



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