Off The Wall Questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matt Whiting wrote:
Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article 14h3f.1550$vE5.742@lakeread03,
"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" wrote:


Matt Whiting wrote:

wrote:


I read a story about bush flying in a Cub, where the pilot would lower
a bucket out the window on a rope. He would then go into a constant
tight banked turn, with one wing of the Cub pointed at the bucket. He
could spiral down, and place the bucket stationary on the ground, so a
person on the ground could drop off or retrieve small objects.



I've heard some pretty wild urban legends, but this has to be one of
the best.

Matt



It's not an urban legend. It's been done for decades. The bucket
never reaches the ground, but a man can drop someing in or take
something out when it gets to shoulder height. There's a picture of
it being done in a mid 1960s National Geographic. There was a
discussion about it in rec.aviation.military a year or two ago.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired



It is also the principle of gunships, which do the same thing, only
with guns pointed out the side of the plane. The early gunships used a
crude sight taped or painted on the side window.


Not, not the same at all. The bullets aren't going straight down, they
are going at some angle to the ground and landing well away from the
airplane. How do you get the bucket and rope to stay at an angle to the
airplane and follow the same path the bullets would follow. I'm still
not getting the physics of how this would work.

Matt

Take a rope or chain with a small weight on the end. Let it hang
straight down from your hand, now move your hand rapidly on a small
circle. Once you obtain a spin in the rope make the circle bigger and
slower. With a little practice you can get the weighted end to remain
stationary in space spinning at the same rate as your circle. Same
principal.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Matt Whiting wrote:

Maybe I'm not getting the full picture here, but it seems at first blush
that this would require the Cub to be able to fly a zero radius turn.


Picture a conic section with the bucket at the vertex and the rope
describing the generatrices.

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Matt Whiting wrote:
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:

wrote:

I read a story about bush flying in a Cub, where the pilot would lower
a bucket out the window on a rope. He would then go into a constant
tight banked turn, with one wing of the Cub pointed at the bucket. He
could spiral down, and place the bucket stationary on the ground, so a
person on the ground could drop off or retrieve small objects.


It's not an urban legend. It's been done for decades. The bucket
never reaches the ground, but a man can drop someing in or take
something out when it gets to shoulder height. There's a picture of it
being done in a mid 1960s National Geographic. There was a discussion
about it in rec.aviation.military a year or two ago.

Maybe I'm not getting the full picture here, but it seems at first blush
that this would require the Cub to be able to fly a zero radius turn.

I have met a guy who claimed to have done it as part of an airshow,
using a Tiger Moth. He said that he used about 1500 feet of rope. Must
have been a bit of pain lowering and raising the bucket.

I think the whole thing depends on the bucket's drag, the rope's drag,
and the flexibility of the rope. The bucket lags behind the plane, and
the flexibility means that the bucket's horizontal position tending
towards the average of the horizontal position of the plane. If the rope
is long enough, then it becomes stationary.

Actually, this one it true, Matt.

The technique was first used (AFAIK) by the Wycliff Bible Translators
as a way to deliver
small loads to jungle missionaries.

Richard

On 13 Oct 2005 13:06:32 -0700, "Richard Lamb"
wrote:

Actually, this one it true, Matt.

The technique was first used (AFAIK) by the Wycliff Bible Translators
as a way to deliver
small loads to jungle missionaries.

Richard

Don't THINK that was the first use, but it was definitely an early
use. The bucket could get into terrain you would never land a plane
in, and unteathered drops were too easy to lose.

wrote in message
...
On 13 Oct 2005 13:06:32 -0700, "Richard Lamb"
wrote:

Actually, this one it true, Matt.

The technique was first used (AFAIK) by the Wycliff Bible Translators
as a way to deliver
small loads to jungle missionaries.

Richard

Don't THINK that was the first use, but it was definitely an early
use. The bucket could get into terrain you would never land a plane
in, and unteathered drops were too easy to lose.

Nate Saint, a missionary aviator in Ecuador, was the inventor of the
technique.

Rich S.

I believe I saw it in an issue of Popular Science being used by the Army
Air Corp during THE WAR.


"Rich S." wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
...
On 13 Oct 2005 13:06:32 -0700, "Richard Lamb"
wrote:

Actually, this one it true, Matt.

The technique was first used (AFAIK) by the Wycliff Bible Translators
as a way to deliver
small loads to jungle missionaries.

Richard

Don't THINK that was the first use, but it was definitely an early
use. The bucket could get into terrain you would never land a plane
in, and unteathered drops were too easy to lose.

Nate Saint, a missionary aviator in Ecuador, was the inventor of the
technique.

Rich S.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:38:11 -0700, "Rich S."
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On 13 Oct 2005 13:06:32 -0700, "Richard Lamb"
wrote:

Actually, this one it true, Matt.

The technique was first used (AFAIK) by the Wycliff Bible Translators
as a way to deliver
small loads to jungle missionaries.

Richard

Don't THINK that was the first use, but it was definitely an early
use. The bucket could get into terrain you would never land a plane
in, and unteathered drops were too easy to lose.

Nate Saint, a missionary aviator in Ecuador, was the inventor of the
technique.

Rich S.

-That's Correct - it was Mission Aviation Fellowship, not
Wycliffe/Jaars.

I just knew Wycliffe didn't sound right.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:00:39 GMT, "Cy Galley"
wrote:

I believe I saw it in an issue of Popular Science being used by the Army
Air Corp during THE WAR.

Korean war perhaps? Nate Saint was in the US Airforce in the second
world war, and apparently perfected the technique in the early
fifties.

wrote in message
...
-That's Correct - it was Mission Aviation Fellowship, not
Wycliffe/Jaars.

I just knew Wycliffe didn't sound right.

And all this time I thought it was the Moody Bible Institute at the
Moody-Wooddale airport near Chicago.

Rich S.