Go-around - my first sighting

Capt.Doug wrote:

Go-arounds, otherwise called balked landings, are standard training
curriculum. Once or twice a year we may have to perform one.


but surely not real-time in an aircraft, Doug? The twice-yearly routine
is in a simulator, I'm sure! And that's what simulators are there for
anyway, isn't it - to hone your aviation knowledge and skills in upset
and abnormal situations?

Ramapriya

Ramapriya wrote:
but surely not real-time in an aircraft, Doug? The twice-yearly routine
is in a simulator, I'm sure! And that's what simulators are there for
anyway, isn't it - to hone your aviation knowledge and skills in upset
and abnormal situations?

The simulators are for dealing with the rapid decompression at FL410,
fire in the cargo hold, one engine out on a twin, flying an ILS
down to minimums. A go around is no big deal. Just make sure you
don't gain too much speed before the flaps are retracted.

I asked a friend who flies for UA about this while I was doing
my IFR. During IFR training, you often do multiple missed approaches.
Part 121 carriers (If I know correctly) aren't allowed to do
approaches unless the minimums are met so rarely do they go
missed due to the weather. But my friend said it isn't uncommon
to have go missed because of another a/c on the runway or
say at LAX when the radios for ATC failed. I think this was Socal
approach. For the a/c on the approach but not switched over
to tower, very well probably went missed due to waiting for
socal and then switching to tower too late. Man, I'd hate to
be flying around that basin IFR with the lost comms on Socal.
That must have been fun.

Gerald

"Ramapriya" wrote

but surely not real-time in an aircraft, Doug? The twice-yearly routine
is in a simulator, I'm sure!

I *think* that what he was saying is that there are occasions, that come up
a time or two per year, that makes a go around necessary - in real life.
--
Jim in NC

Sometimes things are done in the aircraft, you can't check
the aircraft systems in a simulator. Sometimes they even
use the FDR data to get new parameters for the simulator
software.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Ramapriya" wrote in message
oups.com...
| Capt.Doug wrote:
|
| Go-arounds, otherwise called balked landings, are
standard training
| curriculum. Once or twice a year we may have to perform
one.
|
|
| but surely not real-time in an aircraft, Doug? The
twice-yearly routine
| is in a simulator, I'm sure! And that's what simulators
are there for
| anyway, isn't it - to hone your aviation knowledge and
skills in upset
| and abnormal situations?
|
| Ramapriya
|

"Ramapriya" wrote in
oups.com:

Capt.Doug wrote:

Go-arounds, otherwise called balked landings, are standard training
curriculum. Once or twice a year we may have to perform one.


but surely not real-time in an aircraft, Doug? The twice-yearly routine
is in a simulator, I'm sure! And that's what simulators are there for
anyway, isn't it - to hone your aviation knowledge and skills in upset
and abnormal situations?

Ramapriya


About 5 1/2 years ago I was in Las Vegas with some visiting friends. While
my friends kids went on the rides on top of the Stratosphere Tower, I was
watching the airlines land on 19 L&R at McCarran. It was a brilliantly
clear hot August day. Way in the distance what looked like a black screen
could be seen. One could see blue sky both in front of and behind this
black screen. It was moving towards us. As it reached the far end of RWY
19, one could see that is was a rain shower maybe 1/3 of a mile deep. We
could see the water spattering off the runway surface. We observed an
American MD80, Air West 737, and Delta MD80 execute go rounds and could see
them bounce around as they penetrated the shower. Then, with the storm
about in the middle of the runway, a Soutwest 737 decided to land and
almost fishtailed off when it hit the storm. At least two more flights
follwing the Southwest flight went around. That was all we could observe
as the outside observation deck was evacuated when the storm reached the
numbers on the runway (about 7 miles from the Stratosphere Tower).

At FAA safety seminars, they have shown a video called "The Day All Hell
Broke Loose" showing what happened at the old Stapleton Airport in Denver
one day when the wind shear topped 100 knots! Many airliners (I seem to
remember the video showing 8) went around rather than try to handle this
severe wind shear. I don't know if this video is available on the web, but
if you get a chance to see it, it is an eye opener.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Marty Shapiro wrote:
About 5 1/2 years ago I was in Las Vegas with some visiting friends. While
my friends kids went on the rides on top of the Stratosphere Tower, I was
watching the airlines land on 19 L&R at McCarran. It was a brilliantly
clear hot August day.

2 years ago I saw a jet Blue A320 doing S-turns on a 3-4 mile final
(IIRC). At the time I knew S-turns were normal in light aircraft but
not transport jets. Turns out it is legal. It isn't normal but
occasionally it gets the job done.

gerald

GS wrote in
:

Marty Shapiro wrote:
About 5 1/2 years ago I was in Las Vegas with some visiting friends.
While my friends kids went on the rides on top of the Stratosphere
Tower, I was watching the airlines land on 19 L&R at McCarran. It
was a brilliantly clear hot August day.

2 years ago I saw a jet Blue A320 doing S-turns on a 3-4 mile final
(IIRC). At the time I knew S-turns were normal in light aircraft but
not transport jets. Turns out it is legal. It isn't normal but
occasionally it gets the job done.

gerald

SJC did that several years ago. Tower cleared a B-17 and a P-51 to do a low
pass. They had about 4 airliners strung out all the way to GILRO (the IAF,
about 30 miles out) doings S-turns. They were all able to land in
sequence.

Once near Manteca VOR, I hear on Stockon Approach (now Norcal Approach)
"November xxx (I forgot the number) Uniform Alpha Heavy requests Stockton
ADF practice approach". When I spotted the traffic below me, it was 747.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

"Ramapriya" wrote in message
but surely not real-time in an aircraft, Doug? The twice-yearly routine
is in a simulator, I'm sure! And that's what simulators are there for
anyway, isn't it - to hone your aviation knowledge and skills in upset
and abnormal situations?

Yup, in real time. Once in a while, we have to do a real go-around. I
watched my co-pilot do one for real yesterday. ATC hung us up at FL220 until
about 40 DME from the airport. After finally getting a descent clearance, we
dove for the runway but it was just too tight. A 360 turn wasn't allowed
because of traffic behind us.

D.

"Ramapriya" wrote in message
oups.com...
I was admiring an Emirates A330 on finals earlier today. It appeared to
be on the proper glide path (guaging from the earlier string of
aircraft). A mile out or so, for some reason, TOGA! and the aircraft
went into quite a nose-up attitude and climbed away, aborting the
landing.

This go-around happened on a clear wintry morning with little or no
wind. Hope the Cap'n doesn't lose his job, unless there was some other
reason like runway incursion )

Have you guys ever missed an approach and had to hit TOGA? And does a
go-around make its way as a pilot's log book entry?

Probably directed to pull up and go around by ATC. I've seen it happen once
or twice when there was a problem on the ground or an aircraft approaching
with an emergency.

moo

Ramapriya wrote:
I was admiring an Emirates A330 on finals earlier today. It appeared to
be on the proper glide path (guaging from the earlier string of
aircraft). A mile out or so, for some reason, TOGA! and the aircraft
went into quite a nose-up attitude and climbed away, aborting the
landing.

I witnessed my first airliner go-around today at San Francisco
International - and it was one of the more exciting things I've seen
while plane-watching. I was waiting to pick up some friends - their
flight was delayed so I was hanging out in a nearby gas station parking
lot with my handheld. Winds were about 20 knots gusting to 30 coming
more or less down the runway - but incoming aircraft were reporting
windshear of both plus and minus 20 knots over the numbers.

My friends' plane finally checks in with tower (about an hour and a half
delayed) on a 7 mile final. At what I'm guessing was well under 1000 ft
(the plane had already disappeared out of my sight below some nearby low
buildings), one of the pilots comes on the radio and rather tersely says
that they've had a wind shear alert and are going around. 5 seconds
later the MD-80 comes screaming back into my view looking like a bat out
of hell. I'm guessing that the flaps were still set for landing during
the initial part of the go-around giving a really steep best rate climb.

As interesting as it was to watch from the ground it was a lot more
interesting for my friends on the plane who said that the whole ordeal
was pretty nauseating. The captain may have been little shaken up too
because he decided to divert to Oakland instead of try again (even
though all the planes both before and after didn't have as severe wind
shear and landed without incident).

- Ray


***************************
Raymond Woo
e-mail: raywoo|at|gmail.com
http://gromit.stanford.edu/ray