Angry [More Info]

Javier Henderson wrote:
Hilton wrote:
Neil wrote:
3. "a flight plan was not filed for the cross-country flight"

Would that have made a difference?

Some pilots on this NG were asking if he was IFR.

I don't follow you. He could've asked for a pop-up clearance.

I'm not sure what you're not following, I simply cut-n-pasted from the
report; i.e. he had not filed, period. So no, he wasn't IFR, had no
instrument rating, and did not ask for a pop up (according to the report -
see my previous post for the link).

Hilton

Tom wrote:

Hilton wrote:
Neil wrote:
3. "a flight plan was not filed for the cross-country flight"

Would that have made a difference?

Some pilots on this NG were asking if he was IFR.

This case really amazes me. The guy had his PPL for a month or so, and
had
no problem at all with departing at night, in the rain, with his wife, and
2
kids they planned to adopt.

Tom, it's unbelievable isn't it. Let's ignore what could have or should
have been taught to him, syllabii etc. How about common sense??? And also
perhaps another example (together with the stats) that Private pilots need
more (real) instrument time that what's required by Part 61.

Hilton

Dylan wrote:
Are you sure? The pitch changes in the departure phase tend to be
greater, as well as acceleration effects.

The worst vertigo I had was taking a Duchess out of SQL. The departure goes
something like, runway heading till 400', right turn onto what is
essentially the downwind and maintain 800' (because of jets landing at SFO).

So, rotate, climb at 1000 fpm or so, gear up, flip frequencies, all the
other stuff going into the clouds, right turn at 400', in the turn get to
800', level off, reduce power and roll out the turn all pretty much at the
same time. Whoa... Took me a few seconds, to get things under control -
not the plane, my head.

Hilton

Javier Henderson wrote:
3. "a flight plan was not filed for the cross-country flight"
Would that have made a difference?
Some pilots on this NG were asking if he was IFR.
I don't follow you. He could've asked for a pop-up clearance.

isn't a pop-up clearance a flight plan? you just happen to
file it in the air...

--Sylvain

Hilton wrote:
Hi,

Unfortunately some folks have degraded the initial thread to some political
rambling, so I figured I'd post this to a new thread.

As I predicted:
1. "non-instrument rated private pilot"
2. "Night instrument meteorological conditions prevailed"
3. "a flight plan was not filed for the cross-country flight"
4. "As the airplane proceeded east from the departure airport, the pilot
reported that he was having trouble maintaining outside visual contact and
controlling the airplane and wanted help getting back to the airport."

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...27X02016&key=1

I am a CFI-I and I wouldn't have taken my wife and two kids up on that
flight in those conditions.

I certainly would have in my Mooney but I'd have gone IFR. Of course I
know that there are a few on this list that consider single engine
planes far too dangerous for IFR.

-Robert, CFI

I agree Ron, it sounds like a bunch of 172 pilots. I would have had no
problem flying my Mooney under the same situation (IFR of course), in
fact I've flown that route several times. However, I know my Mooney. I
have a factory new (not factory reman, not rebuilt, not overhauled,
factory new) engine with regular oil analysis and scoping. I've also
been known to cross the Gorman pass IFR at night IMC as well (or, if
icing exists, the V25/V27 coastal route).

-Robert

Ron Rosenfeld wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:13:06 -0500, Andrew Gideon
wrote:

That's IC but not IMC. My take on the phase "IMC" has been that the IC
must
be caused by M.

Instrument Moon Conditions?

Invisible Moon Conditions?

Upon reflection, I would agree with you.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

- Rick

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
I agree Ron, it sounds like a bunch of 172 pilots. I would have had no
problem flying my Mooney under the same situation (IFR of course), in
fact I've flown that route several times. However, I know my Mooney. I
have a factory new (not factory reman, not rebuilt, not overhauled,
factory new) engine with regular oil analysis and scoping. I've also
been known to cross the Gorman pass IFR at night IMC as well (or, if
icing exists, the V25/V27 coastal route).

You like to throw the dice, and hope they come up double 6's. I hope they
do.

If ever you are slapped with some system failure that is necessary to keep
the plane in the air, you just shot craps. In the mountains, (in IFR
especially) you are not too likely to find a good enough landing place to
save your life.

It is all about risk management, and risk acceptance. You are willing to
minimize the risk, and take what ever hand is dealt, from there on out.
Some are not.
--
Jim in NC

On 2005-12-29, Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
No question but that pitch changes may be greater on takeoff than enroute.
But I've not noted any equilibrium problems while flying IMC. Maybe that's
from practice relying on the instruments and ignoring body cues?

Ignoring them isn't the problem, but you can still feel them and it adds
yet another thing on top of an already busy time. Added to this that it
is winter, it is night, there's a possibility of winds generating
turbulence off the terrain, and being winter - icing. I can hardly blame
a CFII for making a no-go decision in such conditions. It's nothing to
do with proficiency or 'being uncomfortable in night IMC'. It's a matter
of adding up the risk factors and finding the risk factors are too high
for a likely successful flight.

I'm not entirely sure where these events took place, but even with our
mild climate here, I wouldn't launch in day IMC here in a light plane
because the freezing level is often below 2000 feet - even if I had
20,000 hours experience. From my 1000 hours or so experience of flying
in the United States, much of it outside the gulf coast seems to have
fairly low icing conditions in the winter.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

On 2005-12-30, Dylan Smith wrote:
I'm not entirely sure where these events took place, but even with our
mild climate here, I wouldn't launch in day IMC here in a light plane
because the freezing level is often below 2000 feet

.... scratch that, I've just read the quoted NTSB report and the
temperature was far too high for icing. Given a Bonanza with decent
instrumentation and an IFR flight plan, I'd have probably gone too.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net